Are Two Bed Two Bath Condos a Gold Mine? | Episode 22 | STR Data Lab™ by AirDNA

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:04:27

It seems like you're a busy guy

with a whole lot of different things.

00:00:04:27 - 00:00:08:21

And not just not just one business too,

and and a lot of other

00:00:08:22 - 00:00:10:13

a lot of other things going on.

00:00:10:13 - 00:00:14:27

I consider working smart and not hard,

so I am very focused

00:00:14:27 - 00:00:19:22

on kind of the revenue

that each one brings in my bread

00:00:19:22 - 00:00:22:28

and butter, two bedroom,

two bath condo properties generally.

00:00:22:28 - 00:00:25:07

GROSS About $200,000 per year.

00:00:25:16 - 00:00:28:15

Are you guys back to pre-COVID

performance levels now?

00:00:28:17 - 00:00:29:21

We are.

00:00:29:21 - 00:00:43:27

And we're not.

00:00:45:10 - 00:00:48:26

Hello and welcome

to the latest episode of the STR Data Lab.

00:00:48:29 - 00:00:52:21

I'm here with our next guest, John,

00:00:53:03 - 00:00:57:09

on with the CEO and founder of Ohana.

00:00:57:09 - 00:00:58:24

Stay in tech tape.

00:00:58:24 - 00:01:00:26

John, welcome to the podcast.

00:01:00:26 - 00:01:01:16

Thanks, Jamie.

00:01:01:16 - 00:01:02:12

Thanks for having me on.

00:01:02:12 - 00:01:04:21

I'm so excited to be on your show and

00:01:06:02 - 00:01:06:17

just share

00:01:06:17 - 00:01:08:18

lots of different things I work on.

00:01:09:18 - 00:01:13:28

Yeah, it seems like you're a busy guy

with a whole lot of

00:01:15:07 - 00:01:16:09

different things.

00:01:16:09 - 00:01:20:03

And not just not just one business

too, and, and a lot of other

00:01:20:04 - 00:01:22:09

a lot of other things going on.

00:01:23:16 - 00:01:25:08

In my mind, they're all related,

00:01:25:08 - 00:01:27:18

so it doesn't feel like multiple things.

00:01:28:10 - 00:01:31:12

But yes, sometimes I have to segment

what I'm working on.

00:01:31:12 - 00:01:37:14

So Ohana stay, which is my short term

rental business I founded.

00:01:37:14 - 00:01:39:12

I grew that out in Hawaii and

00:01:39:12 - 00:01:42:21

my wife is actually taking over the day

to day operation of that.

00:01:44:04 - 00:01:46:02

A lot of the technology that I use to run

00:01:46:02 - 00:01:49:10

Ohana stay is what tech tape is doing.

00:01:49:25 - 00:01:51:28

And then the other thing

that you're saying, I'm busy.

00:01:52:10 - 00:01:56:19

I'm trying to fight some regulations

out in Honolulu, Hawaii. So

00:01:57:19 - 00:02:00:13

that keeps her busy.

00:02:00:13 - 00:02:04:06

So, yeah, maybe

and we can start with some background.

00:02:04:06 - 00:02:07:14

I was excited when I was looking

at your profile to see that.

00:02:07:14 - 00:02:09:19

Yeah. You went to Cornell?

00:02:10:01 - 00:02:14:10

I just took my first trip

up to Ithaca last fall

00:02:15:00 - 00:02:17:18

and guest lectured

00:02:17:18 - 00:02:19:29

for a class in the hospitality school,

00:02:20:00 - 00:02:23:18

giving them a deep dive into the short

term rental industry.

00:02:23:28 - 00:02:26:24

And broadly, my experience with Cornell is

00:02:26:29 - 00:02:31:01

and the hotel school there

and the sort of great work they do there.

00:02:31:26 - 00:02:36:28

But maybe I can talk us through

how did you go from an architect

00:02:37:07 - 00:02:40:22

texture degree to building

a portfolio of vacation rentals?

00:02:42:03 - 00:02:44:01

Again, it's all interrelated.

00:02:44:01 - 00:02:46:25

It's a progression.

00:02:46:25 - 00:02:50:27

But basically I'm then I'm in my late

sixth or seventh career right now.

00:02:50:27 - 00:02:53:03

So when I was younger,

00:02:54:09 - 00:02:56:14

I dedicated

myself to becoming an architect.

00:02:56:14 - 00:02:59:07

So I didn't look at any other profession,

nothing else.

00:02:59:25 - 00:03:02:07

You know, all summer schools,

I went to architecture,

00:03:02:07 - 00:03:05:26

summer school to, you know, focus on that.

00:03:06:05 - 00:03:09:00

And so initially I worked as an architect.

00:03:09:21 - 00:03:13:10

And then as I was working,

I got very interested in sustainability

00:03:14:12 - 00:03:16:13

and environmental architecture.

00:03:16:29 - 00:03:20:24

So I went back to school focusing on that,

00:03:21:11 - 00:03:25:27

got some, spent a lot of time doing that.

00:03:25:27 - 00:03:31:10

Then I worked as a consultant

in the building building industry, helping

00:03:31:14 - 00:03:35:13

people make sustainable buildings, energy

efficient buildings.

00:03:35:13 - 00:03:37:18

While I was working as a consultant,

00:03:38:10 - 00:03:41:25

I worked with some incredible developers,

real estate developers

00:03:42:14 - 00:03:43:27

who not only were making money

00:03:43:27 - 00:03:47:19

for their company but weren't giving back

to the community and adding

00:03:47:19 - 00:03:50:27

value to the people who are buying

the properties that they were building.

00:03:51:15 - 00:03:54:16

And so I said, When I grow up,

I want to be a developer.

00:03:55:11 - 00:03:57:29

And so I stopped my corporate job

00:03:57:29 - 00:04:01:00

and then started a real estate company

and started

00:04:01:00 - 00:04:04:09

developing single family

homes, wound up single family homes.

00:04:04:28 - 00:04:08:03

And when you're developing,

it's a negative cash

00:04:08:03 - 00:04:10:07

flow business until you sell.

00:04:10:07 - 00:04:14:21

And so I looked for a real estate

related business where there was positive

00:04:14:21 - 00:04:17:22

cash flow,

and that's how I got into the short

00:04:17:22 - 00:04:20:23

term rental business.

00:04:20:23 - 00:04:21:17

Hawaii.

00:04:21:17 - 00:04:26:02

The reason why I chose Hawaii is one

that's a great vacation destination,

00:04:27:11 - 00:04:29:04

but two,

00:04:29:04 - 00:04:32:22

it's very interesting because it's

obviously part of the United States,

00:04:33:12 - 00:04:37:24

but it's an international real estate

market, whether it's for sale

00:04:37:25 - 00:04:42:25

or for guests and so I really liked

the fact that if the U.S.

00:04:42:25 - 00:04:46:22

had an economic downturn, other countries,

China, Japan

00:04:46:22 - 00:04:51:02

and Australia would come in to offer

and the economic downturn.

00:04:51:02 - 00:04:55:08

And so that was why I selected

Hawaii as the slide market.

00:04:56:10 - 00:05:00:16

So it's not at all like there's a line to,

you know, to the story.

00:05:00:25 - 00:05:04:14

But yeah, if you go from point A to point

B, it doesn't make much sense.

00:05:05:10 - 00:05:09:01

So is Hawaii the market

where you were developing homes as well,

00:05:09:01 - 00:05:11:20

or just where you looked to manage them?

00:05:12:07 - 00:05:14:25

No, that's not where I was developing

homes.

00:05:14:25 - 00:05:16:18

I was developing homes in New Jersey

00:05:18:03 - 00:05:20:17

and again during that time.

00:05:20:26 - 00:05:23:00

So I was very fortunate.

00:05:23:00 - 00:05:26:03

As I was growing up,

we had a family friend

00:05:26:16 - 00:05:29:07

who had some properties on Honolulu,

00:05:29:24 - 00:05:35:00

and so we were able to go to Hawaii

many times, you know, for vacation.

00:05:35:18 - 00:05:38:03

And because of that,

I felt very comfortable with the market,

00:05:38:03 - 00:05:41:09

even though it was 5000 miles away.

00:05:41:09 - 00:05:44:05

And so, yeah, so then I jumped in

00:05:45:10 - 00:05:47:14

and it was really hard

to find good management

00:05:47:21 - 00:05:49:24

people who would manage it

the way I wanted it.

00:05:49:24 - 00:05:53:20

So little by little I took over

revenue management, I took over,

00:05:53:20 - 00:05:58:05

I guess communication, I took over

managing the cleaners and pretty soon

00:05:58:05 - 00:06:02:04

I was just trying everything

and I kind of fell into into the business.

00:06:03:11 - 00:06:05:10

So how many properties you have out there

00:06:06:08 - 00:06:06:25

right now?

00:06:06:25 - 00:06:12:01

There are just ten properties,

so it's not a huge portfolio.

00:06:12:01 - 00:06:15:11

But what I like to do is I consider

00:06:15:11 - 00:06:17:23

working smart and not hard.

00:06:18:09 - 00:06:22:25

So I am very focused on kind

of the revenue that each one brings in.

00:06:23:13 - 00:06:26:21

And so my bread and butter,

00:06:26:21 - 00:06:30:12

two bedroom, two bath condo properties

generally.

00:06:30:12 - 00:06:32:20

GROSS About $200,000 per year.

00:06:34:03 - 00:06:35:28

And so that's

00:06:35:28 - 00:06:38:28

I kind of try to focus on that

and have a smaller portfolio

00:06:40:11 - 00:06:43:23

and just kind of grow organically

with that type of portfolio.

00:06:44:19 - 00:06:48:01

And so do you own the properties

or are you just managing them?

00:06:48:15 - 00:06:51:19

I own some of them and I co-host

00:06:52:02 - 00:06:54:12

for, you know, for some other folks

as well.

00:06:55:09 - 00:06:58:00

Okay. And and who are you?

00:06:58:00 - 00:07:02:01

You mentioned the sort of multiple

demand drivers and loving that

00:07:02:10 - 00:07:05:06

and as a as a thesis for a market.

00:07:05:06 - 00:07:10:29

But I think as most people know,

Hawaii was impacted maybe more than most

00:07:10:29 - 00:07:15:07

destinations because of the sort of COVID

19 restrictions.

00:07:15:15 - 00:07:19:28

I'm not allowing people

to travel to the island. So.

00:07:20:09 - 00:07:23:02

And how did your properties

fare over the past few years?

00:07:24:06 - 00:07:26:25

Well, the COVID, I mean,

00:07:26:25 - 00:07:30:20

literally everyone says, you know, March,

you know, everything stopped

00:07:31:09 - 00:07:34:19

literally like the faucet

just completely stopped March.

00:07:34:19 - 00:07:38:27

You know, people couldn't fly in

unless they were,

00:07:38:27 - 00:07:43:15

you know, doctors, nurses.

00:07:43:15 - 00:07:46:13

The name of the game for me

during COVID was survive.

00:07:46:23 - 00:07:49:04

Surviving is Thriving is kind of just

00:07:49:13 - 00:07:52:20

that's all I thought about.

00:07:52:20 - 00:07:55:07

I never knew much about mid term rentals

00:07:56:07 - 00:07:57:16

at that point.

00:07:57:16 - 00:08:01:00

A friend of mine, Anton from Idaho,

he's not with us anymore.

00:08:01:00 - 00:08:05:05

But she jumped on a call with me

right after COVID hit

00:08:05:05 - 00:08:08:19

and he gave me some pointers

on how to screen guests.

00:08:08:19 - 00:08:11:11

You know, not necessarily technology,

just kind of the fundamental tools.

00:08:12:04 - 00:08:17:04

And so using that,

I was really fortunate and aligning with

00:08:18:04 - 00:08:20:23

a doctor staffing agency.

00:08:20:23 - 00:08:25:03

So they were flying in specialists

and hospital administrators

00:08:25:03 - 00:08:26:09

to help with the COVID

00:08:27:07 - 00:08:29:00

COVID relief effort.

00:08:29:00 - 00:08:31:24

And so I probably stayed

00:08:31:24 - 00:08:35:00

at around 50 to 60% occupancy

throughout COVID

00:08:36:02 - 00:08:41:09

very, very low, you know,

low rates by the property stayed occupied,

00:08:41:09 - 00:08:44:01

which was actually more important

than that, just sitting empty.

00:08:44:20 - 00:08:47:16

And because it was through

a staffing agency,

00:08:47:16 - 00:08:50:19

the likelihood of squatters or, you know,

00:08:50:19 - 00:08:52:26

problems were very low.

00:08:53:21 - 00:08:56:12

And so, you know,

00:08:56:12 - 00:09:00:23

I was very fortunate that I was able

to kind of make that path work.

00:09:01:14 - 00:09:04:20

And so about a year

and a half was literally just doing that.

00:09:05:28 - 00:09:09:13

And then first quarter of 2021

00:09:09:24 - 00:09:12:14

is when I started

to see some glimmer of hope

00:09:13:08 - 00:09:15:14

with things starting to recover.

00:09:16:16 - 00:09:16:22

Yeah.

00:09:16:22 - 00:09:20:09

So a glint, glimmer of hope back in 2021.

00:09:20:18 - 00:09:24:02

Are you guys back to pre-COVID

performance levels now?

00:09:25:02 - 00:09:27:23

We are and we're not.

00:09:27:23 - 00:09:29:10

So we are.

00:09:29:10 - 00:09:33:25

And the in the sense

that overall financial performance

00:09:34:20 - 00:09:38:08

2022 was actually better than 2019.

00:09:38:08 - 00:09:42:07

So financially 2022 was really good.

00:09:42:24 - 00:09:46:07

The reason why I say we're not is

00:09:46:07 - 00:09:49:19

just the market patterns,

the booking patterns.

00:09:49:19 - 00:09:51:24

Everything is completely upside down.

00:09:51:24 - 00:09:57:14

So it's a lot more staying on top

of what's going on and responding

00:09:57:14 - 00:10:00:26

and reacting as opposed to like knowing,

you know, what

00:10:01:18 - 00:10:03:20

what I anticipate to happen.

00:10:04:05 - 00:10:07:15

So one example of that is

00:10:07:15 - 00:10:10:19

international

travel hasn't really picked picked up yet.

00:10:10:19 - 00:10:12:29

Some are coming, but it hasn't.

00:10:12:29 - 00:10:16:29

And then Waikiki, where I'm located,

international travelers were

00:10:16:29 - 00:10:21:08

what made the spring the shoulder seasons

you know solid bookings.

00:10:21:23 - 00:10:25:09

So right now I'm having the ups and downs

and you know the last minute bookings

00:10:25:09 - 00:10:26:28

that I'm not accustomed to.

00:10:28:04 - 00:10:28:14

Yeah.

00:10:28:14 - 00:10:33:13

And and we put out

some research on that in markets like Wahu

00:10:33:23 - 00:10:36:21

and it's an almost 50% of demand comes

00:10:36:21 - 00:10:39:22

from international guests.

00:10:39:22 - 00:10:41:08

And definitely a theme of

00:10:41:08 - 00:10:44:25

what we're expecting is

and Asian travelers

00:10:45:00 - 00:10:48:17

especially with the return of China

to the sort of international

00:10:48:17 - 00:10:54:04

trying to market our travel market,

could be an a big tailwind for 2023.

00:10:54:04 - 00:10:56:20

Is that part of your expectation

of the year ahead?

00:10:57:26 - 00:11:00:02

I keep close

00:11:00:02 - 00:11:03:18

tabs on it

because that will be another series

00:11:03:18 - 00:11:06:27

of pent up demand, you know, similar

to what we saw from the United States.

00:11:07:15 - 00:11:13:26

So I'm hoping that that trend,

when that does open up, will buffer

00:11:13:26 - 00:11:17:15

some of the economic you know, a downturn

this year that we're having

00:11:18:17 - 00:11:20:01

in our industry right now.

00:11:21:19 - 00:11:24:24

So so you said and maybe some

00:11:24:24 - 00:11:28:06

differing trends on lead times

00:11:28:06 - 00:11:31:05

on an international travel not fully back.

00:11:31:05 - 00:11:35:05

And I'm assuming a lot of those type

of guests book much further out

00:11:35:05 - 00:11:39:06

in advance, which gives you that

sort of confidence and in how you're going

00:11:39:06 - 00:11:42:23

to price those sort of short term bookings

if you need to fill in.

00:11:43:01 - 00:11:46:11

Are there any sort of other broad trends

you're seeing in the data today?

00:11:47:11 - 00:11:49:17

Well, just like you said, the

00:11:50:12 - 00:11:52:18

the booking window has compressed

00:11:52:18 - 00:11:55:04

dramatically and not only in Hawaii.

00:11:55:04 - 00:11:58:24

So, you know, I provide revenue

management services and lots of different

00:11:59:04 - 00:12:01:05

while multiple markets

00:12:01:26 - 00:12:04:29

Australia, Texas, New Jersey, Arizona

00:12:05:18 - 00:12:10:01

and in different ways

but all these markets seem to have

00:12:10:01 - 00:12:14:17

like way, you know,

tighter tighter booking windows are

00:12:16:11 - 00:12:17:20

but that tighter booking window

00:12:17:20 - 00:12:21:20

does not necessarily equate

to discounted prices.

00:12:23:05 - 00:12:25:19

And so it's kind of odd

because usually it's like,

00:12:25:27 - 00:12:28:22

you know, last minute you give discounts

and you get to filled up.

00:12:29:04 - 00:12:31:13

But sometimes people just want that,

you know,

00:12:32:15 - 00:12:33:07

want to stay.

00:12:33:07 - 00:12:34:29

And so they're willing to pay market rate

00:12:34:29 - 00:12:37:16

or maybe even slightly higher than market

rate.

00:12:37:16 - 00:12:39:27

And again that's where our constant

00:12:39:27 - 00:12:43:09

monitoring of what's going on,

as opposed to relying on historic

00:12:43:09 - 00:12:48:08

data, is kind of where I'm seeing

how to stay ahead of the game,

00:12:49:11 - 00:12:51:06

at least right now.

00:12:51:22 - 00:12:54:17

Yeah.

00:12:54:17 - 00:12:57:15

So staying ahead of game, like what

00:12:57:25 - 00:13:02:13

what is your sort of near-term

long term mid-term strategy?

00:13:02:13 - 00:13:06:21

Is it and are you looking to expand

the vacation rental

00:13:08:13 - 00:13:12:12

industry

and your vacation rental business is your

00:13:12:22 - 00:13:15:17

and you said your

your wife is going to be taking it over Is

00:13:15:17 - 00:13:19:05

or is it more maintain what what

what is the outlook there for you.

00:13:20:13 - 00:13:23:14

Yeah. So

00:13:23:14 - 00:13:26:05

we despite the regulation

00:13:26:05 - 00:13:28:11

and you know things that are going on

in Hawaii,

00:13:29:04 - 00:13:31:10

I still really like the Hawaiian

00:13:31:10 - 00:13:34:20

market and I have actually looked up

00:13:35:04 - 00:13:40:28

all the zoning requirements in 2016

when I started as a short term rentals.

00:13:40:28 - 00:13:42:18

So in Hawaii.

00:13:42:18 - 00:13:46:00

And so all my properties are in areas

that are legally zoned,

00:13:46:13 - 00:13:48:27

even though they're trying to take that

Hawaii right now.

00:13:48:27 - 00:13:52:24

So for the short term rental business,

00:13:52:24 - 00:13:56:17

we have made a conscious decision

to stay focused on one market.

00:13:57:03 - 00:14:00:23

I think building out a team

that really operates

00:14:00:23 - 00:14:02:18

the way I want them to operate

00:14:02:18 - 00:14:05:26

has been a lot of work and I don't want

to try to repeat that elsewhere.

00:14:06:15 - 00:14:08:02

I know other people do it all the time.

00:14:08:02 - 00:14:12:18

I'm just, you know,

that this is just my decision. But

00:14:13:29 - 00:14:15:13

the reason why

00:14:15:13 - 00:14:18:13

I I'm focusing my efforts on tech too,

00:14:18:29 - 00:14:23:21

is there are lots of processes

and things that I've noticed

00:14:24:12 - 00:14:27:15

that not only I've run into,

but other people run into the same problem

00:14:27:15 - 00:14:28:29

over and over again.

00:14:28:29 - 00:14:32:26

And so I'm trying to grow

that aspect of the business to,

00:14:34:16 - 00:14:38:12

you know, kind of help the industry,

hopefully with what I've learned

00:14:38:27 - 00:14:41:11

and also to grow,

you know, go my business.

00:14:42:20 - 00:14:46:18

So before we dive into tech tape,

which I do want to do

00:14:46:24 - 00:14:48:27

and you mentioned regulation

00:14:49:18 - 00:14:52:20

and that's an obviously been one of the

00:14:53:22 - 00:14:56:04

top concern for our industry.

00:14:56:04 - 00:15:01:09

And what are you seeing in Hawaii

and where do you think it's going?

00:15:01:10 - 00:15:03:00

You said and maybe even trying

00:15:03:00 - 00:15:06:24

to fight some of the regulation

and what's going on on the ground there.

00:15:08:02 - 00:15:09:23

Yeah, Let me talk about Hawaii

00:15:09:23 - 00:15:12:27

and the kind of general trends

that I'm seeing across the country.

00:15:13:26 - 00:15:18:07

So in Hawaii, especially on Oahu,

00:15:18:07 - 00:15:21:14

which that's the market

that I'm most familiar with now,

00:15:22:16 - 00:15:25:28

there is a concerted effort

to essentially squeeze out

00:15:25:28 - 00:15:27:09

all of the short term rentals

00:15:27:09 - 00:15:31:07

and essentially leave hotels

as the only, only option.

00:15:31:07 - 00:15:36:05

But like the legislation

is very clear on that.

00:15:36:05 - 00:15:38:09

And so

00:15:38:09 - 00:15:41:29

there had been long

standing regulation or rules.

00:15:41:29 - 00:15:43:16

That's how I was able to look up zoning

00:15:43:16 - 00:15:46:23

when I was initially

looking at the Hawaii.

00:15:46:23 - 00:15:49:01

But they're trying to switch change

all that around.

00:15:49:01 - 00:15:54:10

So, you know, hotels

get one one tier of benefits

00:15:54:10 - 00:16:00:14

and then we're kind of squeezed out

a little bit at a time.

00:16:00:14 - 00:16:04:23

So recently there was a bill

that became ordinance that

00:16:07:15 - 00:16:09:19

for to put in very simple terms,

00:16:09:27 - 00:16:14:16

90 days was considered

the minimum length of stay for short

00:16:14:16 - 00:16:19:05

term rental

and and it excluded certain resort zones.

00:16:19:05 - 00:16:21:16

But across the island

00:16:21:16 - 00:16:22:16

they passed it.

00:16:22:16 - 00:16:25:29

But fortunately there was a lawsuit

against the city and county.

00:16:25:29 - 00:16:27:17

And so right now there's an injunction.

00:16:27:17 - 00:16:30:26

So that 30 day

minimum can still be operated

00:16:30:26 - 00:16:34:01

all across the island.

00:16:34:01 - 00:16:37:09

Now, at the state level,

they're trying to,

00:16:37:26 - 00:16:40:11

you know,

throw a lot of these regulations.

00:16:41:00 - 00:16:44:01

One says 25% occupancy tax

00:16:44:01 - 00:16:47:08

only for short term rentals,

but now for not for hotels.

00:16:48:16 - 00:16:51:09

You know, a lot of rules are being thrown

our way.

00:16:52:03 - 00:16:56:28

And fortunately, because of the previous

bill, we were able to organize

00:16:56:28 - 00:17:00:01

and kind of build a network

so that we can collaborate.

00:17:00:22 - 00:17:04:04

And so right now

there are several bills at the state level

00:17:05:26 - 00:17:08:04

that actually after this call, I'm

00:17:08:09 - 00:17:11:26

going to be getting on a call

with a lot of the stakeholders,

00:17:11:26 - 00:17:15:03

and we're just trying to make sure

that we're acting in unison and not,

00:17:15:19 - 00:17:19:21

you know, each island acting on its own

and inadvertently Haman

00:17:20:04 - 00:17:22:29

hung in one another.

00:17:22:29 - 00:17:25:02

So that's that's the landscape there.

00:17:25:02 - 00:17:27:28

I like I said,

I still think Hawaii is a good market,

00:17:28:23 - 00:17:31:06

but it's the challenge and market to

00:17:31:20 - 00:17:33:05

to navigate

00:17:34:15 - 00:17:35:21

just the big picture.

00:17:35:21 - 00:17:41:19

The way I see regulation right now is it's

kind of like a pendulum swinging.

00:17:41:19 - 00:17:43:21

For too long it was a free for all.

00:17:43:21 - 00:17:44:18

There was no regulation.

00:17:44:18 - 00:17:47:00

People were doing whatever they wanted.

00:17:47:00 - 00:17:50:17

And so now we're kind of

on the other swing where regulators

00:17:50:17 - 00:17:53:24

have figured out like, okay,

like we have to do this length of stay

00:17:54:16 - 00:17:56:15

and they're going extreme to one end.

00:17:56:15 - 00:17:58:21

And I think right now

it's kind of, you know,

00:17:59:08 - 00:18:02:04

we're in the process

of finding that equilibrium,

00:18:03:25 - 00:18:04:19

but it's a painful

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:07:05

process as the pendulum is swinging.

00:18:08:19 - 00:18:12:03

So. And what would your advice be

00:18:12:04 - 00:18:16:26

to investors looking at markets and trying

to get an understanding of regulation?

00:18:17:10 - 00:18:20:00

And generally, I've heard it

00:18:20:01 - 00:18:23:12

talk with investors,

a lot of they want to find markets

00:18:25:02 - 00:18:28:02

with maybe impending regulation

or regulation

00:18:28:02 - 00:18:31:24

where certain types of uses are

are in place, where they can get

00:18:31:24 - 00:18:34:16

a license, operate

in a lot of ways like you did,

00:18:35:25 - 00:18:37:15

where maybe restricts

00:18:37:15 - 00:18:40:02

future investment and you can sort of

00:18:40:13 - 00:18:43:22

and maybe have a a advantage

00:18:44:17 - 00:18:46:26

by getting in that market early.

00:18:47:14 - 00:18:50:19

But then then

maybe there's the opposite of

00:18:51:03 - 00:18:54:12

and you're in this market

now you've got major investment

00:18:54:12 - 00:18:57:08

and now you may

get regulated out of business.

00:18:57:16 - 00:19:02:04

So how should people be thinking about it

and what are ways that they can do to

00:19:02:11 - 00:19:05:15

and maybe prevent and what you're saying?

00:19:05:28 - 00:19:06:07

Yeah.

00:19:07:18 - 00:19:10:28

So I definitely agree.

00:19:11:21 - 00:19:15:25

I, I feel like I have a competitive

advantage on the level right now

00:19:15:25 - 00:19:20:02

because I already have properties

that, you know, should remain legal

00:19:20:13 - 00:19:24:26

and it has created a barrier

to entry in that market.

00:19:25:10 - 00:19:27:16

So there's definitely that.

00:19:27:16 - 00:19:29:21

The problem is

00:19:29:22 - 00:19:31:17

the rules of the game

00:19:31:17 - 00:19:34:16

can change even though

there are established regulations.

00:19:34:16 - 00:19:39:22

That's that's

what I'm dealing with right now.

00:19:39:22 - 00:19:43:02

It markets

I would say like in Arizona and Texas.

00:19:43:02 - 00:19:45:02

I think what we're seeing right now is

00:19:46:02 - 00:19:49:21

where it was previously,

you know, not regulated very,

00:19:50:21 - 00:19:52:01

very well

00:19:53:06 - 00:19:54:20

in those markets.

00:19:54:20 - 00:19:57:25

Also,

like there's so much, so much supply now

00:19:57:25 - 00:20:00:26

that those you know,

those markets have suffered.

00:20:01:08 - 00:20:03:11

Sorry for my dog.

00:20:03:11 - 00:20:03:23

That's

00:20:05:12 - 00:20:06:07

what I would say.

00:20:06:07 - 00:20:09:28

If you're going in as one,

00:20:09:28 - 00:20:14:15

be active in your advocacy effort

in that market.

00:20:14:15 - 00:20:14:21

Right.

00:20:14:21 - 00:20:19:08

Just from day one, considered

part of the cost of doing business

00:20:20:07 - 00:20:21:08

if you need to.

00:20:21:08 - 00:20:25:01

I've been going around

contribute to the VR Advocacy Fund

00:20:25:01 - 00:20:28:12

because that's kind of the umbrella

organization that can potentially help.

00:20:28:24 - 00:20:31:02

But there's always local alliances.

00:20:31:02 - 00:20:34:06

Get to know your politicians, right?

00:20:34:06 - 00:20:36:14

If you're not going to be living there,

find a friend

00:20:36:14 - 00:20:37:27

who you know who lives there.

00:20:37:27 - 00:20:38:28

But like

00:20:39:16 - 00:20:44:02

the more you are in contact

with the people who are making decisions

00:20:44:02 - 00:20:48:05

because they think it's

a very simple, simple issue.

00:20:48:05 - 00:20:52:02

And then once we start explaining to them

that, you know, there's this nuance

00:20:52:02 - 00:20:56:10

and there's that nuance, that's when the

politicians actually start to understand.

00:20:56:10 - 00:20:59:28

So I think you just have to get involved

00:20:59:29 - 00:21:03:21

in the advocacy effort from day one.

00:21:03:21 - 00:21:05:20

And do you find that once

00:21:06:02 - 00:21:11:03

sort of the politicians start

understanding the sort of nuance behind it

00:21:11:29 - 00:21:14:06

and all the investment

00:21:15:01 - 00:21:19:00

money coming in the tourism dollars

being spent, the sort of

00:21:19:09 - 00:21:22:17

and a lot of the good things

that the short term rental industry

00:21:22:26 - 00:21:27:21

sort of brings to these local areas,

that they're their swayed or is it

00:21:29:09 - 00:21:31:10

is it an uphill battle?

00:21:31:23 - 00:21:33:27

It's an uphill battle

00:21:34:15 - 00:21:40:07

now, some

and you know, I'm very jaded, but,

00:21:40:07 - 00:21:43:16

you know, some pitch some politicians

and I have an example right now

00:21:44:16 - 00:21:48:10

they understand the nuance and like

they've kind of shifted their focus.

00:21:48:10 - 00:21:48:18

Right.

00:21:48:18 - 00:21:54:26

So on on one of the state bills,

some of our members have been, you know,

00:21:55:12 - 00:21:58:29

cussing the issue with the representative

that introduced the bill.

00:21:59:21 - 00:22:03:14

And she she has done a 180.

00:22:03:23 - 00:22:07:27

He didn't realize how much negative impact

it would have on the local public.

00:22:07:29 - 00:22:10:15

You know, local residents

00:22:10:19 - 00:22:12:15

at the same time,

00:22:12:15 - 00:22:16:16

I feel that many times

these are these bills,

00:22:16:17 - 00:22:18:29

the decision is made before

they're even introduced.

00:22:20:08 - 00:22:22:03

You know, there is influence

00:22:22:03 - 00:22:25:20

from other industries,

not the travel industries.

00:22:26:14 - 00:22:29:13

So it feels like sometimes

they're already like decided upon

00:22:29:13 - 00:22:34:22

and they're just going through the process

so that it looks like a public process.

00:22:34:22 - 00:22:38:04

So the other thing that I will say

is get involved in advocacy

00:22:38:04 - 00:22:41:11

early on, but during that advocacy time,

00:22:42:12 - 00:22:43:04

build the

00:22:43:04 - 00:22:48:18

capacity to fundraise so that, you know,

should you need to get a lobbyist

00:22:48:18 - 00:22:51:24

or should you need to,

you know, bring on a legal action

00:22:51:24 - 00:22:56:23

if something, you know, passes,

you're kind of ready at that point.

00:22:56:23 - 00:23:00:01

And that's one of the things

that we messed up on arrival level.

00:23:00:20 - 00:23:04:07

We thought our advocacy was enough

and what's a pass was just like,

00:23:05:07 - 00:23:06:25

you know, what do you do?

00:23:06:25 - 00:23:10:07

Fortunately, another group stepped in

and sued the city and county,

00:23:10:18 - 00:23:15:21

and that's

what's kind of kept everything at bay.

00:23:15:21 - 00:23:20:01

Well, sounds like you're part

of a good effort going on there and

00:23:20:02 - 00:23:24:08

and look forward to

and seeing the results of that.

00:23:25:24 - 00:23:27:29

Well, let's jump in to tech, Tate,

00:23:27:29 - 00:23:30:13

because that is and you says your

00:23:30:13 - 00:23:33:15

your your new focus today so

00:23:33:25 - 00:23:39:22

and what tell us about about the company

and what you're trying to solve for there.

00:23:41:03 - 00:23:42:25

Yeah so

00:23:42:25 - 00:23:46:25

all the services that it provides

it comes out of all the issues

00:23:46:25 - 00:23:51:02

that all the pain points that I have run

into in my short term rental company.

00:23:51:02 - 00:23:53:17

But then I've noticed

00:23:54:10 - 00:23:57:28

my colleagues in the industry run

into the same thing and everyone thinks

00:23:57:28 - 00:24:00:24

that they're running into the same,

you know, issue over and over again.

00:24:01:15 - 00:24:06:21

So the first we provide

revenue management services

00:24:07:04 - 00:24:10:01

and that's just something

that people spend a lot of time on

00:24:10:14 - 00:24:13:16

and no one knows what the right price is.

00:24:13:16 - 00:24:14:00

Right.

00:24:14:08 - 00:24:16:08

And so it's a lot of guessing.

00:24:16:08 - 00:24:21:18

And I've kind of systematized the process

by which you find

00:24:21:18 - 00:24:25:12

what that race price should be given,

you know, any point in time in the future.

00:24:26:01 - 00:24:29:14

And so that's essentially designed

00:24:29:14 - 00:24:33:29

to help them make a lot more money

but save a lot of time.

00:24:33:29 - 00:24:34:10

Right.

00:24:34:10 - 00:24:37:01

So that's really

what the revenue management services,

00:24:37:29 - 00:24:41:04

the other other services

00:24:41:13 - 00:24:46:24

we build, some might customize workflows

that don't exist in your context.

00:24:46:24 - 00:24:48:17

That right.

00:24:48:17 - 00:24:52:04

So what I changed

00:24:52:04 - 00:24:55:29

CPMs is more than 15 times in my journey,

00:24:56:14 - 00:24:58:12

and that's

because I was always searching for,

00:24:58:12 - 00:25:01:20

you know, there's got to be a solution

that works the way I need it.

00:25:02:08 - 00:25:05:10

And what I've come to realize

and I validated it

00:25:05:10 - 00:25:08:15

speaking with lots of other operators

00:25:09:28 - 00:25:12:28

because there's no short term

rental school, right?

00:25:13:13 - 00:25:15:07

Everyone builds their business.

00:25:15:07 - 00:25:18:01

You know how they built their business.

00:25:18:01 - 00:25:22:24

And the tech providers cannot anticipate

how you're operating.

00:25:23:09 - 00:25:25:20

And so even if a feature is there,

00:25:25:20 - 00:25:28:24

it might not be implemented

the way of what's for your business.

00:25:29:03 - 00:25:29:22

Right?

00:25:30:08 - 00:25:33:23

And so the then people go and search

and try to find another PMC

00:25:33:23 - 00:25:35:13

or another solution.

00:25:35:13 - 00:25:38:04

And so if 80% of your tech

stack is working for you,

00:25:38:04 - 00:25:41:18

but you have like two or three

or four real pain points,

00:25:42:03 - 00:25:43:02

and if you could just address

00:25:43:02 - 00:25:46:07

those things, I'm like,

that's your text that would be working.

00:25:46:24 - 00:25:50:21

And then tech type can build out

those workflows and maintain it for you

00:25:51:03 - 00:25:54:03

so that it's almost like having that

feature set in your business.

00:25:55:21 - 00:25:56:21

So it sounds

00:25:56:21 - 00:26:00:17

like you're taking a lot

of the existing technology out there.

00:26:00:17 - 00:26:04:15

So whether it's in the major

revenue management companies

00:26:05:22 - 00:26:08:01

and like Price Labs, Wheelhouse,

00:26:08:16 - 00:26:10:22

BUI the like

00:26:11:01 - 00:26:12:20

the existing key

00:26:12:20 - 00:26:16:08

and these systems

that people are already implementing today

00:26:16:16 - 00:26:20:02

and you're going to either run

the revenue management for them

00:26:21:12 - 00:26:23:12

or help them sort of

00:26:23:27 - 00:26:25:28

and do the integrations, do the

00:26:27:05 - 00:26:30:11

and little additions, ones

that sort of really

00:26:30:11 - 00:26:33:28

make it work for them and

and make it work within their business.

00:26:34:09 - 00:26:34:16

All right.

00:26:34:16 - 00:26:39:04

Yes, that's actually a perfect summary.

00:26:39:04 - 00:26:41:17

The name tech tape is a play on duct tape.

00:26:42:03 - 00:26:45:15

So I have no like, pretense

that this is some like,

00:26:45:26 - 00:26:50:16

you know, we find the really like,

you know, it works.

00:26:50:26 - 00:26:54:25

But as I leverage what other people are

way smarter than myself

00:26:55:07 - 00:26:58:27

have already built and then try to make

that work for your business.

00:27:00:14 - 00:27:01:04

That's great.

00:27:01:04 - 00:27:04:25

So I expect so.

00:27:04:25 - 00:27:09:24

I assume that

and since you're in each of these tools

00:27:09:24 - 00:27:13:09

on a day to day

basis, you're having a good sense of

00:27:14:27 - 00:27:18:02

and the different strategies out there for

00:27:18:02 - 00:27:22:08

for managing and for revenue management.

00:27:22:08 - 00:27:27:01

So how these dynamic pricing tools work.

00:27:27:01 - 00:27:31:05

So how and given

that we're in a very dynamic environment

00:27:31:05 - 00:27:33:24

today,

we've got like half the markets out there

00:27:33:24 - 00:27:37:18

with or occupancies are increasing

half are declining.

00:27:37:26 - 00:27:41:16

And how are you thinking about

revenue management strategy

00:27:41:28 - 00:27:45:16

just in general today?

00:27:45:16 - 00:27:47:21

My approach and strategy,

00:27:48:07 - 00:27:52:18

it's coming in handy

now, but it's actually the same way

00:27:52:18 - 00:27:56:20

that I've been operating,

which is really finding

00:27:56:20 - 00:28:00:00

what the market will bear,

what the people who are booking,

00:28:00:27 - 00:28:04:07

what what's that like

sweet spot that they're willing to book

00:28:05:10 - 00:28:05:28

not too long.

00:28:05:28 - 00:28:08:26

So you're not giving it away and

not too high so that you're staying empty.

00:28:08:26 - 00:28:09:16

Right.

00:28:10:19 - 00:28:11:19

And that approach.

00:28:11:19 - 00:28:14:12

So basically in very simplistic terms,

00:28:15:04 - 00:28:17:14

the price and length of stay order lovers

00:28:18:11 - 00:28:21:19

and then the occupancy

is kind of the result that you see to,

00:28:22:07 - 00:28:25:16

to calibrate

what what you want to do right.

00:28:25:16 - 00:28:26:25

And that and you do that over

00:28:26:25 - 00:28:32:10

multiple periods of time,

not just 30 months, 30 days, but 69.

00:28:32:10 - 00:28:37:02

The, you know, and it's actually been I've

00:28:38:08 - 00:28:42:06

since fall I've had some clients

where their occupancy

00:28:42:07 - 00:28:45:29

just like plummeted and they're like,

I don't know what's going on.

00:28:45:29 - 00:28:47:22

And I started working with them.

00:28:47:22 - 00:28:52:29

And within about a 2 to 3 week period,

I was able to get their occupancy

00:28:52:29 - 00:28:57:07

back to something, you know,

that a business can operate under.

00:28:57:10 - 00:29:02:16

And so, yeah, the the strategy is

really not what the market is doing.

00:29:02:16 - 00:29:07:11

So I'm sorry to say, is not the data

that transparent or our DNA is saying

00:29:07:11 - 00:29:10:10

that this is the number, you know,

this is what the ADR is,

00:29:10:25 - 00:29:13:08

because that's just the average of what

what happened.

00:29:13:08 - 00:29:13:15

Right.

00:29:13:15 - 00:29:17:03

And so that's really good

for benchmarking after the fact.

00:29:18:04 - 00:29:20:11

But as you're looking forward,

00:29:20:11 - 00:29:22:24

I actually have instances where

00:29:22:24 - 00:29:24:24

I told Tim Speicher from Bali,

00:29:25:28 - 00:29:28:22

his graph really like showed me

where I was performing rate.

00:29:28:22 - 00:29:32:08

And in this instance

I was to x the 90th percentile

00:29:32:08 - 00:29:35:18

in the market according to his data.

00:29:35:18 - 00:29:37:05

But I was like, if I was looking at this,

00:29:37:05 - 00:29:40:05

I would have been happy at 20%

higher than the market, right?

00:29:40:17 - 00:29:43:03

So like the data can really

00:29:43:03 - 00:29:43:27

like hands

00:29:43:27 - 00:29:48:07

hamstring you because you're like, Oh,

I can't push him further than that, right?

00:29:48:07 - 00:29:51:26

So there's kind of a balance on

how you use the data.

00:29:53:12 - 00:29:53:19

Yeah.

00:29:53:19 - 00:29:58:11

So and it sounds like you're well

outperforming your,

00:29:58:20 - 00:30:01:27

your market, your comp set. And

00:30:02:27 - 00:30:07:27

on a typical revenue,

is it because you're sort of in

00:30:08:11 - 00:30:11:10

and holding out

and getting those last minute bookers

00:30:11:10 - 00:30:13:21

and you're able to sort of

keep your rates high

00:30:13:21 - 00:30:17:10

or are you getting the right bookings

further out in advance?

00:30:17:10 - 00:30:20:25

Like and help me think through like what

what is that

00:30:20:25 - 00:30:23:14

strategy that you're implementing?

00:30:24:03 - 00:30:26:22

So the strategy depends

on the client, right?

00:30:26:22 - 00:30:27:23

There are some clients.

00:30:28:28 - 00:30:29:16

It's a

00:30:29:16 - 00:30:32:15

combination of what their preference

and their risk tolerance is.

00:30:33:00 - 00:30:35:20

This is what I believe

will work in the market.

00:30:36:11 - 00:30:39:14

So but a big part of my strategy

00:30:39:21 - 00:30:43:15

is having won a one year open calendar

00:30:43:22 - 00:30:46:27

because then different people book,

00:30:48:01 - 00:30:52:29

but different people find different value

based on how far out things are.

00:30:52:29 - 00:30:55:20

And then that right person is shifting

00:30:56:04 - 00:30:58:04

as you're

getting closer and closer and closer.

00:30:58:19 - 00:31:02:14

So I really like to have like a full year

to work with

00:31:03:14 - 00:31:06:19

and use the pace

and the length of stay as lovers

00:31:06:19 - 00:31:11:02

to protect the calendar,

but get that kind of booking

00:31:11:20 - 00:31:14:12

and then it shifts again

when it gets to the midterm,

00:31:14:12 - 00:31:17:05

and then it shifts again

when it gets the short term.

00:31:17:26 - 00:31:20:14

And by combining all all of the above

00:31:21:01 - 00:31:24:02

at the end of the year,

you should be well above,

00:31:24:16 - 00:31:27:06

you know, someone who always plays

the last man standing or someone

00:31:27:06 - 00:31:29:27

who always, you know,

is looking for the far out booking.

00:31:30:16 - 00:31:30:24

Yeah.

00:31:31:22 - 00:31:33:02

So. Well,

00:31:33:02 - 00:31:36:20

what do

you think an audience is mostly like

00:31:36:28 - 00:31:40:12

and hosts or owners

with 1 to 10 properties?

00:31:40:12 - 00:31:44:08

Like what are the key data points that

they're look, they should be looking at

00:31:44:08 - 00:31:47:12

What are you looking at on a regular basis

when sort of forming your

00:31:48:14 - 00:31:49:21

strategy?

00:31:50:16 - 00:31:54:10

So for me, occupancy and pacing

00:31:54:22 - 00:31:57:11

are the two, you know,

00:31:57:11 - 00:31:59:19

two key things that I'm really focused on

00:32:02:08 - 00:32:04:12

and I'm focused

00:32:04:19 - 00:32:09:10

much more on the trends that I'm seeing,

you know, as a going up is going down

00:32:09:17 - 00:32:13:04

the how fast you know, how far

how fast is it getting booked.

00:32:13:21 - 00:32:16:26

So it's the trends that are important.

00:32:18:05 - 00:32:20:24

And I, I always find the actual data point

00:32:21:26 - 00:32:23:26

to be less important.

00:32:23:26 - 00:32:27:05

And I think a lot of people

look at that data point,

00:32:27:05 - 00:32:31:01

right, and say, okay,

this might get as a $250 ADR market.

00:32:31:01 - 00:32:35:00

This is a, you know, 150 and that a

00:32:37:08 - 00:32:40:12

I'll call the dive into second

00:32:40:13 - 00:32:43:26

because the short term

rental market is a immature market, right?

00:32:43:26 - 00:32:47:15

It's a lot of individuals

kind of all guessing

00:32:48:15 - 00:32:51:03

if this is a hotel, it makes perfect sense

00:32:51:03 - 00:32:54:00

to look at the data point and say,

okay, this is a $22 market.

00:32:54:09 - 00:32:57:25

And then based off of it, but

because it's kind of a free for all right.

00:32:57:25 - 00:33:00:14

Now, I think the the data point

00:33:01:08 - 00:33:03:20

is meaningful for benchmarking purposes,

00:33:04:04 - 00:33:07:09

but it's really the trends that

that you really should be focusing on

00:33:08:15 - 00:33:10:23

more like looking ahead. Yeah.

00:33:10:28 - 00:33:14:22

So so given that you're looking

at the trends in all these markets like

00:33:15:02 - 00:33:18:03

are you feeling good about the health

of the industry right now or

00:33:18:06 - 00:33:22:24

and what's your sense of of where

we're at?

00:33:23:13 - 00:33:28:09

I am cautiously optimistic right now.

00:33:28:09 - 00:33:30:17

Again,

things have shifted quite dramatically.

00:33:30:17 - 00:33:34:07

So if you continue to do

exactly what you did in 2020 to 2021,

00:33:34:23 - 00:33:36:26

you're probably not going to do very well.

00:33:36:26 - 00:33:40:27

And I think that's those are the folks

who are saying occupancy is going down.

00:33:41:24 - 00:33:43:26

But what I am seeing is

00:33:44:19 - 00:33:48:26

if you are adjusting

to the new, new trends that are happening,

00:33:50:04 - 00:33:51:12

yes, maybe you're at

00:33:51:12 - 00:33:55:11

a slightly lower,

but then you make up for it in occupancy.

00:33:55:11 - 00:33:55:20

Right.

00:33:55:20 - 00:33:58:22

And I'm not saying that's a general rule

that always happens.

00:33:58:22 - 00:34:01:29

But like through the multiple markets,

00:34:03:21 - 00:34:06:20

you know, I've been able to accomplish

00:34:06:20 - 00:34:09:20

like 25, 30% above market

00:34:10:23 - 00:34:13:21

by, you know, the ADR being just us

00:34:13:23 - 00:34:17:07

a tad lower than what what my client

was normally comfortable with

00:34:17:27 - 00:34:19:25

and then being able

to push up the occupancy.

00:34:19:25 - 00:34:22:04

So I think the demand is still there.

00:34:22:04 - 00:34:26:00

I think you just have to be much

more nimble than you had been in the past.

00:34:27:29 - 00:34:30:17

That's great. So

00:34:30:17 - 00:34:33:08

wrapping up now

00:34:33:08 - 00:34:37:15

and you maybe hinted about

some of the things you were expecting

00:34:37:15 - 00:34:41:27

for the year ahead, but if we came back

a year from now, what do you

00:34:42:03 - 00:34:45:26

what do you think is the big, big headline

for the industry over this next year

00:34:46:06 - 00:34:51:16

that's going to play out?

00:34:51:16 - 00:34:54:18

One, I think our industry

is maturing really fast

00:34:54:18 - 00:34:59:01

right now and it's really exciting to be

part of the industry as it's maturing.

00:34:59:19 - 00:35:02:00

So I think it's going to be much

more stabilized.

00:35:02:03 - 00:35:04:26

You know how I told you

pricing is all over the place?

00:35:05:09 - 00:35:06:00

I think there's going

00:35:06:00 - 00:35:09:23

to be more rules of engagement

that people start latching onto,

00:35:10:05 - 00:35:15:06

which means and you know, the variable

variance is going to be much tighter.

00:35:16:23 - 00:35:17:25

So I think

00:35:18:01 - 00:35:21:05

then the

story is going to be much more mature.

00:35:21:05 - 00:35:23:12

And then the other aspect is

00:35:23:21 - 00:35:26:17

our industry is highly fragmented

00:35:26:17 - 00:35:30:10

and I know a lot of people

talk about consolidation,

00:35:31:07 - 00:35:34:15

but I actually think with efforts

like tuck tape,

00:35:34:15 - 00:35:38:06

but what other people are doing, like

Enzo Connect and you know, other folks

00:35:38:24 - 00:35:42:17

that there's going to be kind of a

fragmentation of there's a lot of things,

00:35:43:03 - 00:35:46:16

but you're able to kind of make it work

so that it's not just one consolidated

00:35:47:06 - 00:35:50:04

in a monolith,

that that's the only choice,

00:35:50:04 - 00:35:52:00

but you actually have a lot of choice.

00:35:52:00 - 00:35:54:21

But they kind of start to work together.

00:35:54:21 - 00:35:57:02

And and I talk with people all the time

00:35:57:02 - 00:36:00:07

and the and I'm sort of worried

00:36:00:07 - 00:36:03:19

about the complexity

of running a short terminal.

00:36:04:06 - 00:36:07:21

And then you talk through

all the technology that's out there today

00:36:07:21 - 00:36:10:11

that can help you automate that, help you

00:36:10:20 - 00:36:12:23

sort of run

the business pretty efficiently.

00:36:13:16 - 00:36:15:20

And then you combine

that with a tech tape that

00:36:16:21 - 00:36:17:23

it makes it

00:36:17:23 - 00:36:20:29

where you don't

have to be part of a big conglomerate.

00:36:21:08 - 00:36:24:12

Use a large property manager

that you can and begin

00:36:24:12 - 00:36:26:29

to really piece it together

and do it yourself.

00:36:27:16 - 00:36:28:21

Do you agree?

00:36:29:07 - 00:36:31:26

That's exactly you know,

00:36:31:26 - 00:36:34:11

I, I let's see

00:36:34:11 - 00:36:38:00

the last thing that I would want

is for there to be

00:36:38:00 - 00:36:41:05

just like a microsoft and Google within

the short term rental industry, right.

00:36:41:05 - 00:36:42:02

Like that.

00:36:42:02 - 00:36:46:13

Diversity is really

what makes us such a vibrant marketplace.

00:36:47:05 - 00:36:50:26

And there's so much entrepreneurship

in this industry that people are coming up

00:36:50:26 - 00:36:54:24

with solutions all the time

and if you consolidate,

00:36:56:01 - 00:36:58:24

you start,

you know, how that starts ending.

00:36:58:24 - 00:37:02:13

And so, you know,

part of tech tape is trying to make sure

00:37:02:13 - 00:37:05:08

that you can use the best tool

for your business

00:37:05:21 - 00:37:09:07

without having to,

you know, go go to Microsoft.

00:37:10:06 - 00:37:11:24

And that said,

00:37:11:24 - 00:37:15:02

do you worry that our distribution systems

are so much

00:37:15:17 - 00:37:18:22

so reliant on and Booking.com,

00:37:18:22 - 00:37:23:23

Airbnb and Vermont? Yes.

00:37:23:23 - 00:37:28:03

But then there are also

a lot of very credible

00:37:29:19 - 00:37:33:05

not just efforts, but like processes

that people have created.

00:37:33:05 - 00:37:37:08

And Marc Simpson from Bruce

Lee there, Damian Sheridan

00:37:37:28 - 00:37:40:12

on Book Direct that

00:37:42:00 - 00:37:45:04

I'm hopeful

we're not going to get away from Airbnb.

00:37:45:07 - 00:37:47:22

I mean, like it's

not going to happen, right.

00:37:48:05 - 00:37:51:10

But a little less of reliance

on the old chairs,

00:37:51:10 - 00:37:54:23

a little more self-reliance

on your own booking website.

00:37:55:11 - 00:37:58:25

I think that is going to happen.

00:37:58:25 - 00:38:02:19

Well, I agree. So

00:38:03:22 - 00:38:08:12

and maybe we'll wrap it up on that note.

00:38:08:12 - 00:38:12:16

And for listeners that don't know

Mark Simpson, definitely look him up.

00:38:13:00 - 00:38:15:16

The book direct show with Damian

00:38:15:27 - 00:38:20:29

and great conference,

great movement going there John

00:38:21:11 - 00:38:23:28

if people want to reach out and find you,

what what's

00:38:24:04 - 00:38:28:18

what's the best spot

for them to to do that.

00:38:28:18 - 00:38:30:21

So I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

00:38:31:00 - 00:38:34:09

And so if you

look if you search John on or

00:38:35:17 - 00:38:38:13

to tap on

LinkedIn, you should be able to find me.

00:38:39:00 - 00:38:42:09

You can also email me at John

Jay H and Dot

00:38:42:10 - 00:38:48:26

and at get tech tip g t to to ecom

00:38:50:04 - 00:38:52:25

and that's the best way to reach me.

00:38:52:25 - 00:38:53:27

Well great

00:38:54:15 - 00:38:57:19

and again

thanks for joining and for all listeners

00:38:57:19 - 00:39:02:18

please reach out to John

if you think he might be able to help you

00:39:03:02 - 00:39:06:21

sort of reach that next level

in your short term rental business.

00:39:07:09 - 00:39:08:15

John, thanks.

00:39:08:15 - 00:39:10:02

Thank you, Jeremy. This was a lot of fun.