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Are Two Bed Two Bath Condos a Gold Mine? | Episode 22 | STR Data Lab™ by AirDNA

Welcome to the latest episode of the STR Data Lab! Our guest today is John, CEO and founder of Ohana Stay and Tech Tape. In this episode, John shares his insights and experiences on entrepreneurship, technology, and more. He talks about how his short-term rental business, Ohana Stay, led to the founding of Tech Tape, and how he manages multiple ventures while fighting regulations in Honolulu, Hawaii. As a Cornell graduate, John also shares his experiences with guest lecturing at the university's hospitality school.We also dive into John's experience owning a property in Waikiki during the COVID-19 pandemic. Despite the challenges, John was able to keep his property occupied at around 50-60% occupancy throughout COVID, thanks to low rates and the use of a staffing agency to avoid squatters or other problems. He notes that while things are starting to recover, the market and booking patterns are completely upside down, requiring him to stay on top of what's going on and respond and react accordingly. Stay tuned for an engaging discussion on the travel industry and how technology is transforming it.

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Transcript

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:04:27

It seems like you're a busy guy

with a whole lot of different things.

00:00:04:27 - 00:00:08:21

And not just not just one business too,

and and a lot of other

00:00:08:22 - 00:00:10:13

a lot of other things going on.

00:00:10:13 - 00:00:14:27

I consider working smart and not hard,

so I am very focused

00:00:14:27 - 00:00:19:22

on kind of the revenue

that each one brings in my bread

00:00:19:22 - 00:00:22:28

and butter, two bedroom,

two bath condo properties generally.

00:00:22:28 - 00:00:25:07

GROSS About $200,000 per year.

00:00:25:16 - 00:00:28:15

Are you guys back to pre-COVID

performance levels now?

00:00:28:17 - 00:00:29:21

We are.

00:00:29:21 - 00:00:43:27

And we're not.

00:00:45:10 - 00:00:48:26

Hello and welcome

to the latest episode of the STR Data Lab.

00:00:48:29 - 00:00:52:21

I'm here with our next guest, John,

00:00:53:03 - 00:00:57:09

on with the CEO and founder of Ohana.

00:00:57:09 - 00:00:58:24

Stay in tech tape.

00:00:58:24 - 00:01:00:26

John, welcome to the podcast.

00:01:00:26 - 00:01:01:16

Thanks, Jamie.

00:01:01:16 - 00:01:02:12

Thanks for having me on.

00:01:02:12 - 00:01:04:21

I'm so excited to be on your show and

00:01:06:02 - 00:01:06:17

just share

00:01:06:17 - 00:01:08:18

lots of different things I work on.

00:01:09:18 - 00:01:13:28

Yeah, it seems like you're a busy guy

with a whole lot of

00:01:15:07 - 00:01:16:09

different things.

00:01:16:09 - 00:01:20:03

And not just not just one business

too, and, and a lot of other

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a lot of other things going on.

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In my mind, they're all related,

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so it doesn't feel like multiple things.

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But yes, sometimes I have to segment

what I'm working on.

00:01:31:12 - 00:01:37:14

So Ohana stay, which is my short term

rental business I founded.

00:01:37:14 - 00:01:39:12

I grew that out in Hawaii and

00:01:39:12 - 00:01:42:21

my wife is actually taking over the day

to day operation of that.

00:01:44:04 - 00:01:46:02

A lot of the technology that I use to run

00:01:46:02 - 00:01:49:10

Ohana stay is what tech tape is doing.

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And then the other thing

that you're saying, I'm busy.

00:01:52:10 - 00:01:56:19

I'm trying to fight some regulations

out in Honolulu, Hawaii. So

00:01:57:19 - 00:02:00:13

that keeps her busy.

00:02:00:13 - 00:02:04:06

So, yeah, maybe

and we can start with some background.

00:02:04:06 - 00:02:07:14

I was excited when I was looking

at your profile to see that.

00:02:07:14 - 00:02:09:19

Yeah. You went to Cornell?

00:02:10:01 - 00:02:14:10

I just took my first trip

up to Ithaca last fall

00:02:15:00 - 00:02:17:18

and guest lectured

00:02:17:18 - 00:02:19:29

for a class in the hospitality school,

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giving them a deep dive into the short

term rental industry.

00:02:23:28 - 00:02:26:24

And broadly, my experience with Cornell is

00:02:26:29 - 00:02:31:01

and the hotel school there

and the sort of great work they do there.

00:02:31:26 - 00:02:36:28

But maybe I can talk us through

how did you go from an architect

00:02:37:07 - 00:02:40:22

texture degree to building

a portfolio of vacation rentals?

00:02:42:03 - 00:02:44:01

Again, it's all interrelated.

00:02:44:01 - 00:02:46:25

It's a progression.

00:02:46:25 - 00:02:50:27

But basically I'm then I'm in my late

sixth or seventh career right now.

00:02:50:27 - 00:02:53:03

So when I was younger,

00:02:54:09 - 00:02:56:14

I dedicated

myself to becoming an architect.

00:02:56:14 - 00:02:59:07

So I didn't look at any other profession,

nothing else.

00:02:59:25 - 00:03:02:07

You know, all summer schools,

I went to architecture,

00:03:02:07 - 00:03:05:26

summer school to, you know, focus on that.

00:03:06:05 - 00:03:09:00

And so initially I worked as an architect.

00:03:09:21 - 00:03:13:10

And then as I was working,

I got very interested in sustainability

00:03:14:12 - 00:03:16:13

and environmental architecture.

00:03:16:29 - 00:03:20:24

So I went back to school focusing on that,

00:03:21:11 - 00:03:25:27

got some, spent a lot of time doing that.

00:03:25:27 - 00:03:31:10

Then I worked as a consultant

in the building building industry, helping

00:03:31:14 - 00:03:35:13

people make sustainable buildings, energy

efficient buildings.

00:03:35:13 - 00:03:37:18

While I was working as a consultant,

00:03:38:10 - 00:03:41:25

I worked with some incredible developers,

real estate developers

00:03:42:14 - 00:03:43:27

who not only were making money

00:03:43:27 - 00:03:47:19

for their company but weren't giving back

to the community and adding

00:03:47:19 - 00:03:50:27

value to the people who are buying

the properties that they were building.

00:03:51:15 - 00:03:54:16

And so I said, When I grow up,

I want to be a developer.

00:03:55:11 - 00:03:57:29

And so I stopped my corporate job

00:03:57:29 - 00:04:01:00

and then started a real estate company

and started

00:04:01:00 - 00:04:04:09

developing single family

homes, wound up single family homes.

00:04:04:28 - 00:04:08:03

And when you're developing,

it's a negative cash

00:04:08:03 - 00:04:10:07

flow business until you sell.

00:04:10:07 - 00:04:14:21

And so I looked for a real estate

related business where there was positive

00:04:14:21 - 00:04:17:22

cash flow,

and that's how I got into the short

00:04:17:22 - 00:04:20:23

term rental business.

00:04:20:23 - 00:04:21:17

Hawaii.

00:04:21:17 - 00:04:26:02

The reason why I chose Hawaii is one

that's a great vacation destination,

00:04:27:11 - 00:04:29:04

but two,

00:04:29:04 - 00:04:32:22

it's very interesting because it's

obviously part of the United States,

00:04:33:12 - 00:04:37:24

but it's an international real estate

market, whether it's for sale

00:04:37:25 - 00:04:42:25

or for guests and so I really liked

the fact that if the U.S.

00:04:42:25 - 00:04:46:22

had an economic downturn, other countries,

China, Japan

00:04:46:22 - 00:04:51:02

and Australia would come in to offer

and the economic downturn.

00:04:51:02 - 00:04:55:08

And so that was why I selected

Hawaii as the slide market.

00:04:56:10 - 00:05:00:16

So it's not at all like there's a line to,

you know, to the story.

00:05:00:25 - 00:05:04:14

But yeah, if you go from point A to point

B, it doesn't make much sense.

00:05:05:10 - 00:05:09:01

So is Hawaii the market

where you were developing homes as well,

00:05:09:01 - 00:05:11:20

or just where you looked to manage them?

00:05:12:07 - 00:05:14:25

No, that's not where I was developing

homes.

00:05:14:25 - 00:05:16:18

I was developing homes in New Jersey

00:05:18:03 - 00:05:20:17

and again during that time.

00:05:20:26 - 00:05:23:00

So I was very fortunate.

00:05:23:00 - 00:05:26:03

As I was growing up,

we had a family friend

00:05:26:16 - 00:05:29:07

who had some properties on Honolulu,

00:05:29:24 - 00:05:35:00

and so we were able to go to Hawaii

many times, you know, for vacation.

00:05:35:18 - 00:05:38:03

And because of that,

I felt very comfortable with the market,

00:05:38:03 - 00:05:41:09

even though it was 5000 miles away.

00:05:41:09 - 00:05:44:05

And so, yeah, so then I jumped in

00:05:45:10 - 00:05:47:14

and it was really hard

to find good management

00:05:47:21 - 00:05:49:24

people who would manage it

the way I wanted it.

00:05:49:24 - 00:05:53:20

So little by little I took over

revenue management, I took over,

00:05:53:20 - 00:05:58:05

I guess communication, I took over

managing the cleaners and pretty soon

00:05:58:05 - 00:06:02:04

I was just trying everything

and I kind of fell into into the business.

00:06:03:11 - 00:06:05:10

So how many properties you have out there

00:06:06:08 - 00:06:06:25

right now?

00:06:06:25 - 00:06:12:01

There are just ten properties,

so it's not a huge portfolio.

00:06:12:01 - 00:06:15:11

But what I like to do is I consider

00:06:15:11 - 00:06:17:23

working smart and not hard.

00:06:18:09 - 00:06:22:25

So I am very focused on kind

of the revenue that each one brings in.

00:06:23:13 - 00:06:26:21

And so my bread and butter,

00:06:26:21 - 00:06:30:12

two bedroom, two bath condo properties

generally.

00:06:30:12 - 00:06:32:20

GROSS About $200,000 per year.

00:06:34:03 - 00:06:35:28

And so that's

00:06:35:28 - 00:06:38:28

I kind of try to focus on that

and have a smaller portfolio

00:06:40:11 - 00:06:43:23

and just kind of grow organically

with that type of portfolio.

00:06:44:19 - 00:06:48:01

And so do you own the properties

or are you just managing them?

00:06:48:15 - 00:06:51:19

I own some of them and I co-host

00:06:52:02 - 00:06:54:12

for, you know, for some other folks

as well.

00:06:55:09 - 00:06:58:00

Okay. And and who are you?

00:06:58:00 - 00:07:02:01

You mentioned the sort of multiple

demand drivers and loving that

00:07:02:10 - 00:07:05:06

and as a as a thesis for a market.

00:07:05:06 - 00:07:10:29

But I think as most people know,

Hawaii was impacted maybe more than most

00:07:10:29 - 00:07:15:07

destinations because of the sort of COVID

19 restrictions.

00:07:15:15 - 00:07:19:28

I'm not allowing people

to travel to the island. So.

00:07:20:09 - 00:07:23:02

And how did your properties

fare over the past few years?

00:07:24:06 - 00:07:26:25

Well, the COVID, I mean,

00:07:26:25 - 00:07:30:20

literally everyone says, you know, March,

you know, everything stopped

00:07:31:09 - 00:07:34:19

literally like the faucet

just completely stopped March.

00:07:34:19 - 00:07:38:27

You know, people couldn't fly in

unless they were,

00:07:38:27 - 00:07:43:15

you know, doctors, nurses.

00:07:43:15 - 00:07:46:13

The name of the game for me

during COVID was survive.

00:07:46:23 - 00:07:49:04

Surviving is Thriving is kind of just

00:07:49:13 - 00:07:52:20

that's all I thought about.

00:07:52:20 - 00:07:55:07

I never knew much about mid term rentals

00:07:56:07 - 00:07:57:16

at that point.

00:07:57:16 - 00:08:01:00

A friend of mine, Anton from Idaho,

he's not with us anymore.

00:08:01:00 - 00:08:05:05

But she jumped on a call with me

right after COVID hit

00:08:05:05 - 00:08:08:19

and he gave me some pointers

on how to screen guests.

00:08:08:19 - 00:08:11:11

You know, not necessarily technology,

just kind of the fundamental tools.

00:08:12:04 - 00:08:17:04

And so using that,

I was really fortunate and aligning with

00:08:18:04 - 00:08:20:23

a doctor staffing agency.

00:08:20:23 - 00:08:25:03

So they were flying in specialists

and hospital administrators

00:08:25:03 - 00:08:26:09

to help with the COVID

00:08:27:07 - 00:08:29:00

COVID relief effort.

00:08:29:00 - 00:08:31:24

And so I probably stayed

00:08:31:24 - 00:08:35:00

at around 50 to 60% occupancy

throughout COVID

00:08:36:02 - 00:08:41:09

very, very low, you know,

low rates by the property stayed occupied,

00:08:41:09 - 00:08:44:01

which was actually more important

than that, just sitting empty.

00:08:44:20 - 00:08:47:16

And because it was through

a staffing agency,

00:08:47:16 - 00:08:50:19

the likelihood of squatters or, you know,

00:08:50:19 - 00:08:52:26

problems were very low.

00:08:53:21 - 00:08:56:12

And so, you know,

00:08:56:12 - 00:09:00:23

I was very fortunate that I was able

to kind of make that path work.

00:09:01:14 - 00:09:04:20

And so about a year

and a half was literally just doing that.

00:09:05:28 - 00:09:09:13

And then first quarter of 2021

00:09:09:24 - 00:09:12:14

is when I started

to see some glimmer of hope

00:09:13:08 - 00:09:15:14

with things starting to recover.

00:09:16:16 - 00:09:16:22

Yeah.

00:09:16:22 - 00:09:20:09

So a glint, glimmer of hope back in 2021.

00:09:20:18 - 00:09:24:02

Are you guys back to pre-COVID

performance levels now?

00:09:25:02 - 00:09:27:23

We are and we're not.

00:09:27:23 - 00:09:29:10

So we are.

00:09:29:10 - 00:09:33:25

And the in the sense

that overall financial performance

00:09:34:20 - 00:09:38:08

2022 was actually better than 2019.

00:09:38:08 - 00:09:42:07

So financially 2022 was really good.

00:09:42:24 - 00:09:46:07

The reason why I say we're not is

00:09:46:07 - 00:09:49:19

just the market patterns,

the booking patterns.

00:09:49:19 - 00:09:51:24

Everything is completely upside down.

00:09:51:24 - 00:09:57:14

So it's a lot more staying on top

of what's going on and responding

00:09:57:14 - 00:10:00:26

and reacting as opposed to like knowing,

you know, what

00:10:01:18 - 00:10:03:20

what I anticipate to happen.

00:10:04:05 - 00:10:07:15

So one example of that is

00:10:07:15 - 00:10:10:19

international

travel hasn't really picked picked up yet.

00:10:10:19 - 00:10:12:29

Some are coming, but it hasn't.

00:10:12:29 - 00:10:16:29

And then Waikiki, where I'm located,

international travelers were

00:10:16:29 - 00:10:21:08

what made the spring the shoulder seasons

you know solid bookings.

00:10:21:23 - 00:10:25:09

So right now I'm having the ups and downs

and you know the last minute bookings

00:10:25:09 - 00:10:26:28

that I'm not accustomed to.

00:10:28:04 - 00:10:28:14

Yeah.

00:10:28:14 - 00:10:33:13

And and we put out

some research on that in markets like Wahu

00:10:33:23 - 00:10:36:21

and it's an almost 50% of demand comes

00:10:36:21 - 00:10:39:22

from international guests.

00:10:39:22 - 00:10:41:08

And definitely a theme of

00:10:41:08 - 00:10:44:25

what we're expecting is

and Asian travelers

00:10:45:00 - 00:10:48:17

especially with the return of China

to the sort of international

00:10:48:17 - 00:10:54:04

trying to market our travel market,

could be an a big tailwind for 2023.

00:10:54:04 - 00:10:56:20

Is that part of your expectation

of the year ahead?

00:10:57:26 - 00:11:00:02

I keep close

00:11:00:02 - 00:11:03:18

tabs on it

because that will be another series

00:11:03:18 - 00:11:06:27

of pent up demand, you know, similar

to what we saw from the United States.

00:11:07:15 - 00:11:13:26

So I'm hoping that that trend,

when that does open up, will buffer

00:11:13:26 - 00:11:17:15

some of the economic you know, a downturn

this year that we're having

00:11:18:17 - 00:11:20:01

in our industry right now.

00:11:21:19 - 00:11:24:24

So so you said and maybe some

00:11:24:24 - 00:11:28:06

differing trends on lead times

00:11:28:06 - 00:11:31:05

on an international travel not fully back.

00:11:31:05 - 00:11:35:05

And I'm assuming a lot of those type

of guests book much further out

00:11:35:05 - 00:11:39:06

in advance, which gives you that

sort of confidence and in how you're going

00:11:39:06 - 00:11:42:23

to price those sort of short term bookings

if you need to fill in.

00:11:43:01 - 00:11:46:11

Are there any sort of other broad trends

you're seeing in the data today?

00:11:47:11 - 00:11:49:17

Well, just like you said, the

00:11:50:12 - 00:11:52:18

the booking window has compressed

00:11:52:18 - 00:11:55:04

dramatically and not only in Hawaii.

00:11:55:04 - 00:11:58:24

So, you know, I provide revenue

management services and lots of different

00:11:59:04 - 00:12:01:05

while multiple markets

00:12:01:26 - 00:12:04:29

Australia, Texas, New Jersey, Arizona

00:12:05:18 - 00:12:10:01

and in different ways

but all these markets seem to have

00:12:10:01 - 00:12:14:17

like way, you know,

tighter tighter booking windows are

00:12:16:11 - 00:12:17:20

but that tighter booking window

00:12:17:20 - 00:12:21:20

does not necessarily equate

to discounted prices.

00:12:23:05 - 00:12:25:19

And so it's kind of odd

because usually it's like,

00:12:25:27 - 00:12:28:22

you know, last minute you give discounts

and you get to filled up.

00:12:29:04 - 00:12:31:13

But sometimes people just want that,

you know,

00:12:32:15 - 00:12:33:07

want to stay.

00:12:33:07 - 00:12:34:29

And so they're willing to pay market rate

00:12:34:29 - 00:12:37:16

or maybe even slightly higher than market

rate.

00:12:37:16 - 00:12:39:27

And again that's where our constant

00:12:39:27 - 00:12:43:09

monitoring of what's going on,

as opposed to relying on historic

00:12:43:09 - 00:12:48:08

data, is kind of where I'm seeing

how to stay ahead of the game,

00:12:49:11 - 00:12:51:06

at least right now.

00:12:51:22 - 00:12:54:17

Yeah.

00:12:54:17 - 00:12:57:15

So staying ahead of game, like what

00:12:57:25 - 00:13:02:13

what is your sort of near-term

long term mid-term strategy?

00:13:02:13 - 00:13:06:21

Is it and are you looking to expand

the vacation rental

00:13:08:13 - 00:13:12:12

industry

and your vacation rental business is your

00:13:12:22 - 00:13:15:17

and you said your

your wife is going to be taking it over Is

00:13:15:17 - 00:13:19:05

or is it more maintain what what

what is the outlook there for you.

00:13:20:13 - 00:13:23:14

Yeah. So

00:13:23:14 - 00:13:26:05

we despite the regulation

00:13:26:05 - 00:13:28:11

and you know things that are going on

in Hawaii,

00:13:29:04 - 00:13:31:10

I still really like the Hawaiian

00:13:31:10 - 00:13:34:20

market and I have actually looked up

00:13:35:04 - 00:13:40:28

all the zoning requirements in 2016

when I started as a short term rentals.

00:13:40:28 - 00:13:42:18

So in Hawaii.

00:13:42:18 - 00:13:46:00

And so all my properties are in areas

that are legally zoned,

00:13:46:13 - 00:13:48:27

even though they're trying to take that

Hawaii right now.

00:13:48:27 - 00:13:52:24

So for the short term rental business,

00:13:52:24 - 00:13:56:17

we have made a conscious decision

to stay focused on one market.

00:13:57:03 - 00:14:00:23

I think building out a team

that really operates

00:14:00:23 - 00:14:02:18

the way I want them to operate

00:14:02:18 - 00:14:05:26

has been a lot of work and I don't want

to try to repeat that elsewhere.

00:14:06:15 - 00:14:08:02

I know other people do it all the time.

00:14:08:02 - 00:14:12:18

I'm just, you know,

that this is just my decision. But

00:14:13:29 - 00:14:15:13

the reason why

00:14:15:13 - 00:14:18:13

I I'm focusing my efforts on tech too,

00:14:18:29 - 00:14:23:21

is there are lots of processes

and things that I've noticed

00:14:24:12 - 00:14:27:15

that not only I've run into,

but other people run into the same problem

00:14:27:15 - 00:14:28:29

over and over again.

00:14:28:29 - 00:14:32:26

And so I'm trying to grow

that aspect of the business to,

00:14:34:16 - 00:14:38:12

you know, kind of help the industry,

hopefully with what I've learned

00:14:38:27 - 00:14:41:11

and also to grow,

you know, go my business.

00:14:42:20 - 00:14:46:18

So before we dive into tech tape,

which I do want to do

00:14:46:24 - 00:14:48:27

and you mentioned regulation

00:14:49:18 - 00:14:52:20

and that's an obviously been one of the

00:14:53:22 - 00:14:56:04

top concern for our industry.

00:14:56:04 - 00:15:01:09

And what are you seeing in Hawaii

and where do you think it's going?

00:15:01:10 - 00:15:03:00

You said and maybe even trying

00:15:03:00 - 00:15:06:24

to fight some of the regulation

and what's going on on the ground there.

00:15:08:02 - 00:15:09:23

Yeah, Let me talk about Hawaii

00:15:09:23 - 00:15:12:27

and the kind of general trends

that I'm seeing across the country.

00:15:13:26 - 00:15:18:07

So in Hawaii, especially on Oahu,

00:15:18:07 - 00:15:21:14

which that's the market

that I'm most familiar with now,

00:15:22:16 - 00:15:25:28

there is a concerted effort

to essentially squeeze out

00:15:25:28 - 00:15:27:09

all of the short term rentals

00:15:27:09 - 00:15:31:07

and essentially leave hotels

as the only, only option.

00:15:31:07 - 00:15:36:05

But like the legislation

is very clear on that.

00:15:36:05 - 00:15:38:09

And so

00:15:38:09 - 00:15:41:29

there had been long

standing regulation or rules.

00:15:41:29 - 00:15:43:16

That's how I was able to look up zoning

00:15:43:16 - 00:15:46:23

when I was initially

looking at the Hawaii.

00:15:46:23 - 00:15:49:01

But they're trying to switch change

all that around.

00:15:49:01 - 00:15:54:10

So, you know, hotels

get one one tier of benefits

00:15:54:10 - 00:16:00:14

and then we're kind of squeezed out

a little bit at a time.

00:16:00:14 - 00:16:04:23

So recently there was a bill

that became ordinance that

00:16:07:15 - 00:16:09:19

for to put in very simple terms,

00:16:09:27 - 00:16:14:16

90 days was considered

the minimum length of stay for short

00:16:14:16 - 00:16:19:05

term rental

and and it excluded certain resort zones.

00:16:19:05 - 00:16:21:16

But across the island

00:16:21:16 - 00:16:22:16

they passed it.

00:16:22:16 - 00:16:25:29

But fortunately there was a lawsuit

against the city and county.

00:16:25:29 - 00:16:27:17

And so right now there's an injunction.

00:16:27:17 - 00:16:30:26

So that 30 day

minimum can still be operated

00:16:30:26 - 00:16:34:01

all across the island.

00:16:34:01 - 00:16:37:09

Now, at the state level,

they're trying to,

00:16:37:26 - 00:16:40:11

you know,

throw a lot of these regulations.

00:16:41:00 - 00:16:44:01

One says 25% occupancy tax

00:16:44:01 - 00:16:47:08

only for short term rentals,

but now for not for hotels.

00:16:48:16 - 00:16:51:09

You know, a lot of rules are being thrown

our way.

00:16:52:03 - 00:16:56:28

And fortunately, because of the previous

bill, we were able to organize

00:16:56:28 - 00:17:00:01

and kind of build a network

so that we can collaborate.

00:17:00:22 - 00:17:04:04

And so right now

there are several bills at the state level

00:17:05:26 - 00:17:08:04

that actually after this call, I'm

00:17:08:09 - 00:17:11:26

going to be getting on a call

with a lot of the stakeholders,

00:17:11:26 - 00:17:15:03

and we're just trying to make sure

that we're acting in unison and not,

00:17:15:19 - 00:17:19:21

you know, each island acting on its own

and inadvertently Haman

00:17:20:04 - 00:17:22:29

hung in one another.

00:17:22:29 - 00:17:25:02

So that's that's the landscape there.

00:17:25:02 - 00:17:27:28

I like I said,

I still think Hawaii is a good market,

00:17:28:23 - 00:17:31:06

but it's the challenge and market to

00:17:31:20 - 00:17:33:05

to navigate

00:17:34:15 - 00:17:35:21

just the big picture.

00:17:35:21 - 00:17:41:19

The way I see regulation right now is it's

kind of like a pendulum swinging.

00:17:41:19 - 00:17:43:21

For too long it was a free for all.

00:17:43:21 - 00:17:44:18

There was no regulation.

00:17:44:18 - 00:17:47:00

People were doing whatever they wanted.

00:17:47:00 - 00:17:50:17

And so now we're kind of

on the other swing where regulators

00:17:50:17 - 00:17:53:24

have figured out like, okay,

like we have to do this length of stay

00:17:54:16 - 00:17:56:15

and they're going extreme to one end.

00:17:56:15 - 00:17:58:21

And I think right now

it's kind of, you know,

00:17:59:08 - 00:18:02:04

we're in the process

of finding that equilibrium,

00:18:03:25 - 00:18:04:19

but it's a painful

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:07:05

process as the pendulum is swinging.

00:18:08:19 - 00:18:12:03

So. And what would your advice be

00:18:12:04 - 00:18:16:26

to investors looking at markets and trying

to get an understanding of regulation?

00:18:17:10 - 00:18:20:00

And generally, I've heard it

00:18:20:01 - 00:18:23:12

talk with investors,

a lot of they want to find markets

00:18:25:02 - 00:18:28:02

with maybe impending regulation

or regulation

00:18:28:02 - 00:18:31:24

where certain types of uses are

are in place, where they can get

00:18:31:24 - 00:18:34:16

a license, operate

in a lot of ways like you did,

00:18:35:25 - 00:18:37:15

where maybe restricts

00:18:37:15 - 00:18:40:02

future investment and you can sort of

00:18:40:13 - 00:18:43:22

and maybe have a a advantage

00:18:44:17 - 00:18:46:26

by getting in that market early.

00:18:47:14 - 00:18:50:19

But then then

maybe there's the opposite of

00:18:51:03 - 00:18:54:12

and you're in this market

now you've got major investment

00:18:54:12 - 00:18:57:08

and now you may

get regulated out of business.

00:18:57:16 - 00:19:02:04

So how should people be thinking about it

and what are ways that they can do to

00:19:02:11 - 00:19:05:15

and maybe prevent and what you're saying?

00:19:05:28 - 00:19:06:07

Yeah.

00:19:07:18 - 00:19:10:28

So I definitely agree.

00:19:11:21 - 00:19:15:25

I, I feel like I have a competitive

advantage on the level right now

00:19:15:25 - 00:19:20:02

because I already have properties

that, you know, should remain legal

00:19:20:13 - 00:19:24:26

and it has created a barrier

to entry in that market.

00:19:25:10 - 00:19:27:16

So there's definitely that.

00:19:27:16 - 00:19:29:21

The problem is

00:19:29:22 - 00:19:31:17

the rules of the game

00:19:31:17 - 00:19:34:16

can change even though

there are established regulations.

00:19:34:16 - 00:19:39:22

That's that's

what I'm dealing with right now.

00:19:39:22 - 00:19:43:02

It markets

I would say like in Arizona and Texas.

00:19:43:02 - 00:19:45:02

I think what we're seeing right now is

00:19:46:02 - 00:19:49:21

where it was previously,

you know, not regulated very,

00:19:50:21 - 00:19:52:01

very well

00:19:53:06 - 00:19:54:20

in those markets.

00:19:54:20 - 00:19:57:25

Also,

like there's so much, so much supply now

00:19:57:25 - 00:20:00:26

that those you know,

those markets have suffered.

00:20:01:08 - 00:20:03:11

Sorry for my dog.

00:20:03:11 - 00:20:03:23

That's

00:20:05:12 - 00:20:06:07

what I would say.

00:20:06:07 - 00:20:09:28

If you're going in as one,

00:20:09:28 - 00:20:14:15

be active in your advocacy effort

in that market.

00:20:14:15 - 00:20:14:21

Right.

00:20:14:21 - 00:20:19:08

Just from day one, considered

part of the cost of doing business

00:20:20:07 - 00:20:21:08

if you need to.

00:20:21:08 - 00:20:25:01

I've been going around

contribute to the VR Advocacy Fund

00:20:25:01 - 00:20:28:12

because that's kind of the umbrella

organization that can potentially help.

00:20:28:24 - 00:20:31:02

But there's always local alliances.

00:20:31:02 - 00:20:34:06

Get to know your politicians, right?

00:20:34:06 - 00:20:36:14

If you're not going to be living there,

find a friend

00:20:36:14 - 00:20:37:27

who you know who lives there.

00:20:37:27 - 00:20:38:28

But like

00:20:39:16 - 00:20:44:02

the more you are in contact

with the people who are making decisions

00:20:44:02 - 00:20:48:05

because they think it's

a very simple, simple issue.

00:20:48:05 - 00:20:52:02

And then once we start explaining to them

that, you know, there's this nuance

00:20:52:02 - 00:20:56:10

and there's that nuance, that's when the

politicians actually start to understand.

00:20:56:10 - 00:20:59:28

So I think you just have to get involved

00:20:59:29 - 00:21:03:21

in the advocacy effort from day one.

00:21:03:21 - 00:21:05:20

And do you find that once

00:21:06:02 - 00:21:11:03

sort of the politicians start

understanding the sort of nuance behind it

00:21:11:29 - 00:21:14:06

and all the investment

00:21:15:01 - 00:21:19:00

money coming in the tourism dollars

being spent, the sort of

00:21:19:09 - 00:21:22:17

and a lot of the good things

that the short term rental industry

00:21:22:26 - 00:21:27:21

sort of brings to these local areas,

that they're their swayed or is it

00:21:29:09 - 00:21:31:10

is it an uphill battle?

00:21:31:23 - 00:21:33:27

It's an uphill battle

00:21:34:15 - 00:21:40:07

now, some

and you know, I'm very jaded, but,

00:21:40:07 - 00:21:43:16

you know, some pitch some politicians

and I have an example right now

00:21:44:16 - 00:21:48:10

they understand the nuance and like

they've kind of shifted their focus.

00:21:48:10 - 00:21:48:18

Right.

00:21:48:18 - 00:21:54:26

So on on one of the state bills,

some of our members have been, you know,

00:21:55:12 - 00:21:58:29

cussing the issue with the representative

that introduced the bill.

00:21:59:21 - 00:22:03:14

And she she has done a 180.

00:22:03:23 - 00:22:07:27

He didn't realize how much negative impact

it would have on the local public.

00:22:07:29 - 00:22:10:15

You know, local residents

00:22:10:19 - 00:22:12:15

at the same time,

00:22:12:15 - 00:22:16:16

I feel that many times

these are these bills,

00:22:16:17 - 00:22:18:29

the decision is made before

they're even introduced.

00:22:20:08 - 00:22:22:03

You know, there is influence

00:22:22:03 - 00:22:25:20

from other industries,

not the travel industries.

00:22:26:14 - 00:22:29:13

So it feels like sometimes

they're already like decided upon

00:22:29:13 - 00:22:34:22

and they're just going through the process

so that it looks like a public process.

00:22:34:22 - 00:22:38:04

So the other thing that I will say

is get involved in advocacy

00:22:38:04 - 00:22:41:11

early on, but during that advocacy time,

00:22:42:12 - 00:22:43:04

build the

00:22:43:04 - 00:22:48:18

capacity to fundraise so that, you know,

should you need to get a lobbyist

00:22:48:18 - 00:22:51:24

or should you need to,

you know, bring on a legal action

00:22:51:24 - 00:22:56:23

if something, you know, passes,

you're kind of ready at that point.

00:22:56:23 - 00:23:00:01

And that's one of the things

that we messed up on arrival level.

00:23:00:20 - 00:23:04:07

We thought our advocacy was enough

and what's a pass was just like,

00:23:05:07 - 00:23:06:25

you know, what do you do?

00:23:06:25 - 00:23:10:07

Fortunately, another group stepped in

and sued the city and county,

00:23:10:18 - 00:23:15:21

and that's

what's kind of kept everything at bay.

00:23:15:21 - 00:23:20:01

Well, sounds like you're part

of a good effort going on there and

00:23:20:02 - 00:23:24:08

and look forward to

and seeing the results of that.

00:23:25:24 - 00:23:27:29

Well, let's jump in to tech, Tate,

00:23:27:29 - 00:23:30:13

because that is and you says your

00:23:30:13 - 00:23:33:15

your your new focus today so

00:23:33:25 - 00:23:39:22

and what tell us about about the company

and what you're trying to solve for there.

00:23:41:03 - 00:23:42:25

Yeah so

00:23:42:25 - 00:23:46:25

all the services that it provides

it comes out of all the issues

00:23:46:25 - 00:23:51:02

that all the pain points that I have run

into in my short term rental company.

00:23:51:02 - 00:23:53:17

But then I've noticed

00:23:54:10 - 00:23:57:28

my colleagues in the industry run

into the same thing and everyone thinks

00:23:57:28 - 00:24:00:24

that they're running into the same,

you know, issue over and over again.

00:24:01:15 - 00:24:06:21

So the first we provide

revenue management services

00:24:07:04 - 00:24:10:01

and that's just something

that people spend a lot of time on

00:24:10:14 - 00:24:13:16

and no one knows what the right price is.

00:24:13:16 - 00:24:14:00

Right.

00:24:14:08 - 00:24:16:08

And so it's a lot of guessing.

00:24:16:08 - 00:24:21:18

And I've kind of systematized the process

by which you find

00:24:21:18 - 00:24:25:12

what that race price should be given,

you know, any point in time in the future.

00:24:26:01 - 00:24:29:14

And so that's essentially designed

00:24:29:14 - 00:24:33:29

to help them make a lot more money

but save a lot of time.

00:24:33:29 - 00:24:34:10

Right.

00:24:34:10 - 00:24:37:01

So that's really

what the revenue management services,

00:24:37:29 - 00:24:41:04

the other other services

00:24:41:13 - 00:24:46:24

we build, some might customize workflows

that don't exist in your context.

00:24:46:24 - 00:24:48:17

That right.

00:24:48:17 - 00:24:52:04

So what I changed

00:24:52:04 - 00:24:55:29

CPMs is more than 15 times in my journey,

00:24:56:14 - 00:24:58:12

and that's

because I was always searching for,

00:24:58:12 - 00:25:01:20

you know, there's got to be a solution

that works the way I need it.

00:25:02:08 - 00:25:05:10

And what I've come to realize

and I validated it

00:25:05:10 - 00:25:08:15

speaking with lots of other operators

00:25:09:28 - 00:25:12:28

because there's no short term

rental school, right?

00:25:13:13 - 00:25:15:07

Everyone builds their business.

00:25:15:07 - 00:25:18:01

You know how they built their business.

00:25:18:01 - 00:25:22:24

And the tech providers cannot anticipate

how you're operating.

00:25:23:09 - 00:25:25:20

And so even if a feature is there,

00:25:25:20 - 00:25:28:24

it might not be implemented

the way of what's for your business.

00:25:29:03 - 00:25:29:22

Right?

00:25:30:08 - 00:25:33:23

And so the then people go and search

and try to find another PMC

00:25:33:23 - 00:25:35:13

or another solution.

00:25:35:13 - 00:25:38:04

And so if 80% of your tech

stack is working for you,

00:25:38:04 - 00:25:41:18

but you have like two or three

or four real pain points,

00:25:42:03 - 00:25:43:02

and if you could just address

00:25:43:02 - 00:25:46:07

those things, I'm like,

that's your text that would be working.

00:25:46:24 - 00:25:50:21

And then tech type can build out

those workflows and maintain it for you

00:25:51:03 - 00:25:54:03

so that it's almost like having that

feature set in your business.

00:25:55:21 - 00:25:56:21

So it sounds

00:25:56:21 - 00:26:00:17

like you're taking a lot

of the existing technology out there.

00:26:00:17 - 00:26:04:15

So whether it's in the major

revenue management companies

00:26:05:22 - 00:26:08:01

and like Price Labs, Wheelhouse,

00:26:08:16 - 00:26:10:22

BUI the like

00:26:11:01 - 00:26:12:20

the existing key

00:26:12:20 - 00:26:16:08

and these systems

that people are already implementing today

00:26:16:16 - 00:26:20:02

and you're going to either run

the revenue management for them

00:26:21:12 - 00:26:23:12

or help them sort of

00:26:23:27 - 00:26:25:28

and do the integrations, do the

00:26:27:05 - 00:26:30:11

and little additions, ones

that sort of really

00:26:30:11 - 00:26:33:28

make it work for them and

and make it work within their business.

00:26:34:09 - 00:26:34:16

All right.

00:26:34:16 - 00:26:39:04

Yes, that's actually a perfect summary.

00:26:39:04 - 00:26:41:17

The name tech tape is a play on duct tape.

00:26:42:03 - 00:26:45:15

So I have no like, pretense

that this is some like,

00:26:45:26 - 00:26:50:16

you know, we find the really like,

you know, it works.

00:26:50:26 - 00:26:54:25

But as I leverage what other people are

way smarter than myself

00:26:55:07 - 00:26:58:27

have already built and then try to make

that work for your business.

00:27:00:14 - 00:27:01:04

That's great.

00:27:01:04 - 00:27:04:25

So I expect so.

00:27:04:25 - 00:27:09:24

I assume that

and since you're in each of these tools

00:27:09:24 - 00:27:13:09

on a day to day

basis, you're having a good sense of

00:27:14:27 - 00:27:18:02

and the different strategies out there for

00:27:18:02 - 00:27:22:08

for managing and for revenue management.

00:27:22:08 - 00:27:27:01

So how these dynamic pricing tools work.

00:27:27:01 - 00:27:31:05

So how and given

that we're in a very dynamic environment

00:27:31:05 - 00:27:33:24

today,

we've got like half the markets out there

00:27:33:24 - 00:27:37:18

with or occupancies are increasing

half are declining.

00:27:37:26 - 00:27:41:16

And how are you thinking about

revenue management strategy

00:27:41:28 - 00:27:45:16

just in general today?

00:27:45:16 - 00:27:47:21

My approach and strategy,

00:27:48:07 - 00:27:52:18

it's coming in handy

now, but it's actually the same way

00:27:52:18 - 00:27:56:20

that I've been operating,

which is really finding

00:27:56:20 - 00:28:00:00

what the market will bear,

what the people who are booking,

00:28:00:27 - 00:28:04:07

what what's that like

sweet spot that they're willing to book

00:28:05:10 - 00:28:05:28

not too long.

00:28:05:28 - 00:28:08:26

So you're not giving it away and

not too high so that you're staying empty.

00:28:08:26 - 00:28:09:16

Right.

00:28:10:19 - 00:28:11:19

And that approach.

00:28:11:19 - 00:28:14:12

So basically in very simplistic terms,

00:28:15:04 - 00:28:17:14

the price and length of stay order lovers

00:28:18:11 - 00:28:21:19

and then the occupancy

is kind of the result that you see to,

00:28:22:07 - 00:28:25:16

to calibrate

what what you want to do right.

00:28:25:16 - 00:28:26:25

And that and you do that over

00:28:26:25 - 00:28:32:10

multiple periods of time,

not just 30 months, 30 days, but 69.

00:28:32:10 - 00:28:37:02

The, you know, and it's actually been I've

00:28:38:08 - 00:28:42:06

since fall I've had some clients

where their occupancy

00:28:42:07 - 00:28:45:29

just like plummeted and they're like,

I don't know what's going on.

00:28:45:29 - 00:28:47:22

And I started working with them.

00:28:47:22 - 00:28:52:29

And within about a 2 to 3 week period,

I was able to get their occupancy

00:28:52:29 - 00:28:57:07

back to something, you know,

that a business can operate under.

00:28:57:10 - 00:29:02:16

And so, yeah, the the strategy is

really not what the market is doing.

00:29:02:16 - 00:29:07:11

So I'm sorry to say, is not the data

that transparent or our DNA is saying

00:29:07:11 - 00:29:10:10

that this is the number, you know,

this is what the ADR is,

00:29:10:25 - 00:29:13:08

because that's just the average of what

what happened.

00:29:13:08 - 00:29:13:15

Right.

00:29:13:15 - 00:29:17:03

And so that's really good

for benchmarking after the fact.

00:29:18:04 - 00:29:20:11

But as you're looking forward,

00:29:20:11 - 00:29:22:24

I actually have instances where

00:29:22:24 - 00:29:24:24

I told Tim Speicher from Bali,

00:29:25:28 - 00:29:28:22

his graph really like showed me

where I was performing rate.

00:29:28:22 - 00:29:32:08

And in this instance

I was to x the 90th percentile

00:29:32:08 - 00:29:35:18

in the market according to his data.

00:29:35:18 - 00:29:37:05

But I was like, if I was looking at this,

00:29:37:05 - 00:29:40:05

I would have been happy at 20%

higher than the market, right?

00:29:40:17 - 00:29:43:03

So like the data can really

00:29:43:03 - 00:29:43:27

like hands

00:29:43:27 - 00:29:48:07

hamstring you because you're like, Oh,

I can't push him further than that, right?

00:29:48:07 - 00:29:51:26

So there's kind of a balance on

how you use the data.

00:29:53:12 - 00:29:53:19

Yeah.

00:29:53:19 - 00:29:58:11

So and it sounds like you're well

outperforming your,

00:29:58:20 - 00:30:01:27

your market, your comp set. And

00:30:02:27 - 00:30:07:27

on a typical revenue,

is it because you're sort of in

00:30:08:11 - 00:30:11:10

and holding out

and getting those last minute bookers

00:30:11:10 - 00:30:13:21

and you're able to sort of

keep your rates high

00:30:13:21 - 00:30:17:10

or are you getting the right bookings

further out in advance?

00:30:17:10 - 00:30:20:25

Like and help me think through like what

what is that

00:30:20:25 - 00:30:23:14

strategy that you're implementing?

00:30:24:03 - 00:30:26:22

So the strategy depends

on the client, right?

00:30:26:22 - 00:30:27:23

There are some clients.

00:30:28:28 - 00:30:29:16

It's a

00:30:29:16 - 00:30:32:15

combination of what their preference

and their risk tolerance is.

00:30:33:00 - 00:30:35:20

This is what I believe

will work in the market.

00:30:36:11 - 00:30:39:14

So but a big part of my strategy

00:30:39:21 - 00:30:43:15

is having won a one year open calendar

00:30:43:22 - 00:30:46:27

because then different people book,

00:30:48:01 - 00:30:52:29

but different people find different value

based on how far out things are.

00:30:52:29 - 00:30:55:20

And then that right person is shifting

00:30:56:04 - 00:30:58:04

as you're

getting closer and closer and closer.

00:30:58:19 - 00:31:02:14

So I really like to have like a full year

to work with

00:31:03:14 - 00:31:06:19

and use the pace

and the length of stay as lovers

00:31:06:19 - 00:31:11:02

to protect the calendar,

but get that kind of booking

00:31:11:20 - 00:31:14:12

and then it shifts again

when it gets to the midterm,

00:31:14:12 - 00:31:17:05

and then it shifts again

when it gets the short term.

00:31:17:26 - 00:31:20:14

And by combining all all of the above

00:31:21:01 - 00:31:24:02

at the end of the year,

you should be well above,

00:31:24:16 - 00:31:27:06

you know, someone who always plays

the last man standing or someone

00:31:27:06 - 00:31:29:27

who always, you know,

is looking for the far out booking.

00:31:30:16 - 00:31:30:24

Yeah.

00:31:31:22 - 00:31:33:02

So. Well,

00:31:33:02 - 00:31:36:20

what do

you think an audience is mostly like

00:31:36:28 - 00:31:40:12

and hosts or owners

with 1 to 10 properties?

00:31:40:12 - 00:31:44:08

Like what are the key data points that

they're look, they should be looking at

00:31:44:08 - 00:31:47:12

What are you looking at on a regular basis

when sort of forming your

00:31:48:14 - 00:31:49:21

strategy?

00:31:50:16 - 00:31:54:10

So for me, occupancy and pacing

00:31:54:22 - 00:31:57:11

are the two, you know,

00:31:57:11 - 00:31:59:19

two key things that I'm really focused on

00:32:02:08 - 00:32:04:12

and I'm focused

00:32:04:19 - 00:32:09:10

much more on the trends that I'm seeing,

you know, as a going up is going down

00:32:09:17 - 00:32:13:04

the how fast you know, how far

how fast is it getting booked.

00:32:13:21 - 00:32:16:26

So it's the trends that are important.

00:32:18:05 - 00:32:20:24

And I, I always find the actual data point

00:32:21:26 - 00:32:23:26

to be less important.

00:32:23:26 - 00:32:27:05

And I think a lot of people

look at that data point,

00:32:27:05 - 00:32:31:01

right, and say, okay,

this might get as a $250 ADR market.

00:32:31:01 - 00:32:35:00

This is a, you know, 150 and that a

00:32:37:08 - 00:32:40:12

I'll call the dive into second

00:32:40:13 - 00:32:43:26

because the short term

rental market is a immature market, right?

00:32:43:26 - 00:32:47:15

It's a lot of individuals

kind of all guessing

00:32:48:15 - 00:32:51:03

if this is a hotel, it makes perfect sense

00:32:51:03 - 00:32:54:00

to look at the data point and say,

okay, this is a $22 market.

00:32:54:09 - 00:32:57:25

And then based off of it, but

because it's kind of a free for all right.

00:32:57:25 - 00:33:00:14

Now, I think the the data point

00:33:01:08 - 00:33:03:20

is meaningful for benchmarking purposes,

00:33:04:04 - 00:33:07:09

but it's really the trends that

that you really should be focusing on

00:33:08:15 - 00:33:10:23

more like looking ahead. Yeah.

00:33:10:28 - 00:33:14:22

So so given that you're looking

at the trends in all these markets like

00:33:15:02 - 00:33:18:03

are you feeling good about the health

of the industry right now or

00:33:18:06 - 00:33:22:24

and what's your sense of of where

we're at?

00:33:23:13 - 00:33:28:09

I am cautiously optimistic right now.

00:33:28:09 - 00:33:30:17

Again,

things have shifted quite dramatically.

00:33:30:17 - 00:33:34:07

So if you continue to do

exactly what you did in 2020 to 2021,

00:33:34:23 - 00:33:36:26

you're probably not going to do very well.

00:33:36:26 - 00:33:40:27

And I think that's those are the folks

who are saying occupancy is going down.

00:33:41:24 - 00:33:43:26

But what I am seeing is

00:33:44:19 - 00:33:48:26

if you are adjusting

to the new, new trends that are happening,

00:33:50:04 - 00:33:51:12

yes, maybe you're at

00:33:51:12 - 00:33:55:11

a slightly lower,

but then you make up for it in occupancy.

00:33:55:11 - 00:33:55:20

Right.

00:33:55:20 - 00:33:58:22

And I'm not saying that's a general rule

that always happens.

00:33:58:22 - 00:34:01:29

But like through the multiple markets,

00:34:03:21 - 00:34:06:20

you know, I've been able to accomplish

00:34:06:20 - 00:34:09:20

like 25, 30% above market

00:34:10:23 - 00:34:13:21

by, you know, the ADR being just us

00:34:13:23 - 00:34:17:07

a tad lower than what what my client

was normally comfortable with

00:34:17:27 - 00:34:19:25

and then being able

to push up the occupancy.

00:34:19:25 - 00:34:22:04

So I think the demand is still there.

00:34:22:04 - 00:34:26:00

I think you just have to be much

more nimble than you had been in the past.

00:34:27:29 - 00:34:30:17

That's great. So

00:34:30:17 - 00:34:33:08

wrapping up now

00:34:33:08 - 00:34:37:15

and you maybe hinted about

some of the things you were expecting

00:34:37:15 - 00:34:41:27

for the year ahead, but if we came back

a year from now, what do you

00:34:42:03 - 00:34:45:26

what do you think is the big, big headline

for the industry over this next year

00:34:46:06 - 00:34:51:16

that's going to play out?

00:34:51:16 - 00:34:54:18

One, I think our industry

is maturing really fast

00:34:54:18 - 00:34:59:01

right now and it's really exciting to be

part of the industry as it's maturing.

00:34:59:19 - 00:35:02:00

So I think it's going to be much

more stabilized.

00:35:02:03 - 00:35:04:26

You know how I told you

pricing is all over the place?

00:35:05:09 - 00:35:06:00

I think there's going

00:35:06:00 - 00:35:09:23

to be more rules of engagement

that people start latching onto,

00:35:10:05 - 00:35:15:06

which means and you know, the variable

variance is going to be much tighter.

00:35:16:23 - 00:35:17:25

So I think

00:35:18:01 - 00:35:21:05

then the

story is going to be much more mature.

00:35:21:05 - 00:35:23:12

And then the other aspect is

00:35:23:21 - 00:35:26:17

our industry is highly fragmented

00:35:26:17 - 00:35:30:10

and I know a lot of people

talk about consolidation,

00:35:31:07 - 00:35:34:15

but I actually think with efforts

like tuck tape,

00:35:34:15 - 00:35:38:06

but what other people are doing, like

Enzo Connect and you know, other folks

00:35:38:24 - 00:35:42:17

that there's going to be kind of a

fragmentation of there's a lot of things,

00:35:43:03 - 00:35:46:16

but you're able to kind of make it work

so that it's not just one consolidated

00:35:47:06 - 00:35:50:04

in a monolith,

that that's the only choice,

00:35:50:04 - 00:35:52:00

but you actually have a lot of choice.

00:35:52:00 - 00:35:54:21

But they kind of start to work together.

00:35:54:21 - 00:35:57:02

And and I talk with people all the time

00:35:57:02 - 00:36:00:07

and the and I'm sort of worried

00:36:00:07 - 00:36:03:19

about the complexity

of running a short terminal.

00:36:04:06 - 00:36:07:21

And then you talk through

all the technology that's out there today

00:36:07:21 - 00:36:10:11

that can help you automate that, help you

00:36:10:20 - 00:36:12:23

sort of run

the business pretty efficiently.

00:36:13:16 - 00:36:15:20

And then you combine

that with a tech tape that

00:36:16:21 - 00:36:17:23

it makes it

00:36:17:23 - 00:36:20:29

where you don't

have to be part of a big conglomerate.

00:36:21:08 - 00:36:24:12

Use a large property manager

that you can and begin

00:36:24:12 - 00:36:26:29

to really piece it together

and do it yourself.

00:36:27:16 - 00:36:28:21

Do you agree?

00:36:29:07 - 00:36:31:26

That's exactly you know,

00:36:31:26 - 00:36:34:11

I, I let's see

00:36:34:11 - 00:36:38:00

the last thing that I would want

is for there to be

00:36:38:00 - 00:36:41:05

just like a microsoft and Google within

the short term rental industry, right.

00:36:41:05 - 00:36:42:02

Like that.

00:36:42:02 - 00:36:46:13

Diversity is really

what makes us such a vibrant marketplace.

00:36:47:05 - 00:36:50:26

And there's so much entrepreneurship

in this industry that people are coming up

00:36:50:26 - 00:36:54:24

with solutions all the time

and if you consolidate,

00:36:56:01 - 00:36:58:24

you start,

you know, how that starts ending.

00:36:58:24 - 00:37:02:13

And so, you know,

part of tech tape is trying to make sure

00:37:02:13 - 00:37:05:08

that you can use the best tool

for your business

00:37:05:21 - 00:37:09:07

without having to,

you know, go go to Microsoft.

00:37:10:06 - 00:37:11:24

And that said,

00:37:11:24 - 00:37:15:02

do you worry that our distribution systems

are so much

00:37:15:17 - 00:37:18:22

so reliant on and Booking.com,

00:37:18:22 - 00:37:23:23

Airbnb and Vermont? Yes.

00:37:23:23 - 00:37:28:03

But then there are also

a lot of very credible

00:37:29:19 - 00:37:33:05

not just efforts, but like processes

that people have created.

00:37:33:05 - 00:37:37:08

And Marc Simpson from Bruce

Lee there, Damian Sheridan

00:37:37:28 - 00:37:40:12

on Book Direct that

00:37:42:00 - 00:37:45:04

I'm hopeful

we're not going to get away from Airbnb.

00:37:45:07 - 00:37:47:22

I mean, like it's

not going to happen, right.

00:37:48:05 - 00:37:51:10

But a little less of reliance

on the old chairs,

00:37:51:10 - 00:37:54:23

a little more self-reliance

on your own booking website.

00:37:55:11 - 00:37:58:25

I think that is going to happen.

00:37:58:25 - 00:38:02:19

Well, I agree. So

00:38:03:22 - 00:38:08:12

and maybe we'll wrap it up on that note.

00:38:08:12 - 00:38:12:16

And for listeners that don't know

Mark Simpson, definitely look him up.

00:38:13:00 - 00:38:15:16

The book direct show with Damian

00:38:15:27 - 00:38:20:29

and great conference,

great movement going there John

00:38:21:11 - 00:38:23:28

if people want to reach out and find you,

what what's

00:38:24:04 - 00:38:28:18

what's the best spot

for them to to do that.

00:38:28:18 - 00:38:30:21

So I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

00:38:31:00 - 00:38:34:09

And so if you

look if you search John on or

00:38:35:17 - 00:38:38:13

to tap on

LinkedIn, you should be able to find me.

00:38:39:00 - 00:38:42:09

You can also email me at John

Jay H and Dot

00:38:42:10 - 00:38:48:26

and at get tech tip g t to to ecom

00:38:50:04 - 00:38:52:25

and that's the best way to reach me.

00:38:52:25 - 00:38:53:27

Well great

00:38:54:15 - 00:38:57:19

and again

thanks for joining and for all listeners

00:38:57:19 - 00:39:02:18

please reach out to John

if you think he might be able to help you

00:39:03:02 - 00:39:06:21

sort of reach that next level

in your short term rental business.

00:39:07:09 - 00:39:08:15

John, thanks.

00:39:08:15 - 00:39:10:02

Thank you, Jeremy. This was a lot of fun.

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