Natalie Palmer: The Unsexy Side of Short-term Rentals | Episode 23 | STR Data Lab™ by AirDNA

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Speaker 1

Can you talk to me a little bit about where you operate, how you operate in this lovely short term rental space?

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Speaker 2

The thing with Big Bear, like the there's so many listings there right now that the amount we're getting has dropped. We are still profitable because we purchased in 2021 and before now.

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Speaker 1

What I love about that, Natalie, is like one of the things that I think a lot of people don't talk about, but you boldly do talk about is what I'd like to call.

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Speaker 3

The potentially.

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Speaker 1

Unsexy side of short term.

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Speaker 3

Rental.

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Speaker 3

Oh, my goodness. Natalie Palmer.

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Speaker 1

Fabulous. A fierce female. I am so happy to have you on this podcast today, sister. How are you?

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Speaker 2

I'm doing great. Thank you, Maria, for having me. And it's just so nice. I feel like usually I meet people over Zoom and then get to meet them in conferences later. But with you, I got to meet you in person first, so I'm so happy to now have a little zoom friend after meeting in person.

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Speaker 1

I think is better, right? Like I love an IRL experience in real life.

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Speaker 3

Love. I have.

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Speaker 1

Natalie's not a figment of my imagination. It's a human being.

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Speaker 3

Oh, same.

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Speaker 2

To you guys. Especially to, like, working with someone like you. There's a lot of times where it's like, I'll send emails back and forth with rDNA, and it's like, Who are the people that I've even corresponded with? Who is the team there? And I know there's got to be a rockstar team to respond to everything, but it's just nice to like, meet people face to face.

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Speaker 1

I'm like, I'm 100%. Yeah, no, I know. And well, and we have a pretty big team. A shout out to the team because they are rock stars. We had a whole funny, like we have a channel called Marketing Roast or just roast ourselves for all of our cliche marketing things that we say.

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Speaker 3

Oh my God.

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Speaker 1

And rock star got on there. Natalie It was so funny because they're like, I guess there's a Super Bowl out a few years ago where they were like, It was a bunch of rock stars like Ozzy Osbourne. He's like, Yo, marketing people, stop calling yourselves rockstar.

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Speaker 3

But hilarious.

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Speaker 2

Have you ever done it? When I had one corporate job in my life and I was in the marketing department and same thing, like there's all the clichés. And we literally there was one meeting where me and my, like, work bestie, we literally made these like bingo cards, like privately between us. And it was just like Spearhead Circle Back.

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Speaker 3

Is zone.

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Speaker 2

Of genius. Like just these, like, dumb clichés that you hear. I'm sure Rockstar was on there and we were just, like, ticking them off in our meeting privately. Yeah, marketing teams. I was one of them where we're pretty annoying.

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Speaker 1

Yeah, we really are. I mean, annoying and fabulous at the same time.

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Speaker 3

Exactly. I think I'm.

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Speaker 1

Going to take that. I'm going to take that tip and I'm going to turn that into an activity because I think my team would have so much fun calling each other out on it.

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Speaker 2

It was so fun. And like, you'll you'll notice like certain of the terms that end up on the bingo card, It's like one person's notorious slogan. And then like, you just every time they say it, it's like, okay, bingo.

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Speaker 3

Like.

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Speaker 2

Yeah, you got to run with that, like, buzzword bingo.

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Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1

You got to, you got to. And if you can't roast your fellow employees for something, what's the point of having a corporate job? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 3

Totally.

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Speaker 2

That company culture, you know?

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Speaker 1

Yeah, it's right. It's a culture builder, for sure. Speaking of culture builders, can I celebrate you for a minute?

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Speaker 3

Because I feel very you know.

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Speaker 1

It's only been like a week and a half. I don't even know. I don't know what time is anymore.

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Speaker 3

But it hasn't.

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Speaker 1

Been that long since your inaugural level up, your listing summit, which is where we met in person.

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Speaker 3

Yes, it was.

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Speaker 1

I swear a little bit. It was bad.

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Speaker 3

Ass. Oh, well, Redbull conference. It was. Gosh.

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Speaker 2

It was so fun. And like, thank you so much to rDNA two. You guys played such a huge part in it and you were one of our speakers and such a much needed session. I think between a lot of the, you know, heartfelt and like the tears and everything going on like.

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Speaker 3

You, at.

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Speaker 2

The end of the day, like data is what's important and stuff and you just kept it so engaging and interesting and yeah, thank you guys so much for just all your support with the event and everything. It was, it was such a fun week, honestly. So thank you.

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Speaker 1

It was. And I think what was really, really special about it, one, you made it easy for us to show up and, you know, be our best selves, but was really special about it. One, it was all females and only.

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Speaker 3

Women with the.

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Speaker 1

Kind of well slickers shout out.

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Speaker 3

With. But Anthony.

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Speaker 1

He made a great emcee. He helped me out, but I felt great getting on that stage after him. But but like it was also you and Tatiana had a vision, right? I think you've been to a lot of corporate events. You sort of seen how that world plays out, how it can feel. I guess I'm going to call I'm going to say a little stale, a little stale.

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Speaker 1

And you really went out, I think, to change that. Like talk to me a little bit about what your vision was when you sat down. You were Tatiana were like, all right, what's what's a different way to do an.

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Speaker 3

Event like that? Yeah.

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Speaker 2

So my background I already touched on I did work a corporate marketing job for a while, but I also used to be a wedding planner, and I left it because it was I knew that I would be working every single weekend for the rest of my life and I didn't want to do that. But that that was my background was event planning and then got into hosting.

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Speaker 2

Tatyana is first and foremost an interior designer for short term rentals, in addition to managing her own. And like you said, we've been to a handful of corporate events and other industry events and we totally style is the perfect word. Like that's just what we felt. And even if the education is good, one thing that me and her as we started becoming friends and working together more, the space.

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Speaker 2

One thing we talked about was why is everyone on stage talking about how important it is to differentiate yourself in this industry? Have a unique design, do something that stands out, niche yourself down. But then we're in these like boring conference halls. Like there's there's a disconnect here. And so again it's it's totally not to knock on any of the other events.

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Speaker 2

We still show up to all of them and have so much time. And the education is always stellar. But I think that we just wanted to create something that reflected as.

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Speaker 3

Hosts the.

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Speaker 2

Actual design, the hospitality and guest experience that we preach. So yeah, it was just we were the perfect team. She had the design aspect. I had the event planning, and we were just once also once we realized we wanted to do an all women's event, it was like off to the races. We were like, We can take any liberties we want and just go like as girlie as we want with.

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Speaker 3

The swag.

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Speaker 2

Bags and the shirts and the booth designs. We had a cotton candy car, a photo booth. Yeah, all the a braid bar, like all of the creative things that we could do that I just think would people wouldn't appreciate that another event, like we got to run with it. And it was so much fun.

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Speaker 1

Oh, my goodness. I think there's a really key insight in there, I think and it's so interesting. It's not surprising to me that you have this background in marketing and event planning and sort of like how that's probably, you know, led you into this hosting path. But one of the things that I think is really key there is like once you had sort of your niche target audience, like who you wanted to curate this experience for, it was so much easier for you to deliver on that experience.

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Speaker 1

And so like instead of sort of trying to be something for everyone, you're like, No, this is an offense for females, this is for women. We want this to be fun. We want them to enjoy their time, you know, even just like to the to your point, like the set design like this, I call that designed the stage, like the comfortable couches you had for people to sit on.

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Speaker 1

I love that insight. I think it's definitely transferable, I would say, to running in, you know, a short term rental. Right. Because so much of that is about who you're catering to.

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Speaker 2

Yes. Yes. And that's again, like that's where we saw that there is a disconnect is like we as hosts, we are so good at figuring out how many like themed out bachelorette party houses and stuff are there and they're just absolutely crushing it or even, you know, mountain homes or lake houses that provide the kayaks and everything. And we just wanted we just knew that once we figured out who we are selling this event to, we could, I don't know, customize the experience so much more.

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Speaker 2

And there was a good conversation. We were leaning towards the all women's thing and there was kind of a final conversation before we officially said, That's what we're doing. Where we were like, Is this stupid? Why would we intentionally.

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Speaker 3

Cut.

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Speaker 2

Our potential customers by half, like we're excluding.

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Speaker 3

Half.

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Speaker 2

The population? But I just think it came down to there's any other event you want to go to is coed and we want to do something different and really lean into it. And yeah, to your point, we had like our VIP lounge, we did this really cute custom like lounge furniture and our stage looks like a living room.

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Speaker 2

And we actually were saying, Tatiana and I, I hope that people just from being at the event, in addition to the speaker, education also take inspiration.

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Speaker 3

Like.

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Speaker 2

Design inspiration to their own listings. And we literally had people coming up to us at the end, like taking pictures of the VIP lounge, like, Do you know where this a rug is from? Whereas this armchair, I want this for my listing. So we're like, Here's our rental company. Go contact them and they'll they'll tell you where everything's from.

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Speaker 2

So yeah, we're really happy that the audience soaked up, like, exactly the experience.

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Speaker 3

We wanted to.

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Speaker 2

Give them.

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Speaker 1

I love that. No, and you're right. Like, it's really in the details, right? And it's like, that's so it's almost like Metta. Although Metta may not be the perfect way to describe, but like, we wanted to show you how to deliver a really amazing experience by delivering a really amazing experience down to every little detail, including what you're sitting on.

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Speaker 3

And. Exactly.

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Speaker 2

And, you know, it's so funny, too, because I know. Let's let's go back with this example of like creating a bachelorette house or something. And I know a lot of people are nervous If I do something that that's that niche down for my listing, I'm going to push so many people away. What's funny is actually with our event, we literally we sent out these feedback forms after to the attendees and so many of the attendees said, Can you allow men next year, like my husband is seeing pictures and wants to go.

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Speaker 3

And it's just.

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Speaker 2

So funny how you think that meeting down is going to exclude all these people. And now there are literally there's just a half of the population that's.

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Speaker 3

Begging.

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Speaker 2

To get into the event next year. And so just learn who you're catering to and do it really, really well. Those people would become such diehard fans for you. They will vouch to you for everyone else. And I promise, like more doors will open that way you'll end up letting more people in in the end.

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Speaker 3

I love.

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Speaker 1

That. Yeah, right. Like, and, and I think there's also an element of like do it right for one set of group and then figure out how to do it right for a larger group. Right. And to your point you can broaden level of your listening to.

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Speaker 3

Have each or if you like, you.

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Speaker 1

Make it a little bit more inclusive. I love the men wanted to join.

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Speaker 3

I know. I think I like.

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Speaker 1

Pretty things too right then.

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Speaker 2

We pretty things too. We're we're very torn. Like I see the feedback forms and I'm like, you know, we are doing this for for the people and if that's what they want. But I also just again, like my thought is there's so many other coed events if you want that. Like I kind of want to just keep leaning into what we're doing.

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Speaker 2

So Tatyana and I have some conversations back and forth for how we'll pivot for 2024. But I think what we have is strong and I kind of want to just keep running with that.

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Speaker 3

The guys can.

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Speaker 2

Come hang out in Scottsdale like after hours, but.

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Speaker 3

I think the level.

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Speaker 2

Up summit has to still be fun for the gals.

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Speaker 1

I like it. I like it. Well, I whatever you do, I know it's going to be amazing and we'll be there. Yes. And again, it was a really pleasant experience. Also as a sponsor. It was a lovely bespoke booth, the whole nine yards. Oh, my goodness. As well. And a lot of what we were talking about of the conference, right, was was really important topics, which is just like, hey, what is you know, what is my journey to short term rental success look like?

00:12:00:15 - 00:12:19:26

Speaker 1

You know, no matter where I am in my journey. And I think what was great is there folks you know similar to on this podcast who are just starting out or who have a hundred doors or whatever, you know, and they're they're sort of more established. And a lot of people are wondering what is happening in 2023. You operate in one of those areas that I think has seen a lot of change.

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Speaker 1

Right? And probably like the shape of the opportunity has changed so much, probably from 2022 to 23. So I would love for for folks who don't know who you are, which is like nobody, but, you know, just in case. Yeah. Can you talk to me a little bit about where you operate, how you operate in this lovely short term rental space?

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Speaker 2

Yeah, we skipped right over the intro, so let me tell you guys.

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Speaker 3

Who I am. Hi, my name.

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Speaker 2

Is Natalie Palmer. Yeah, so my name is Natalie Palmer, and I've been hosting for five years. I'm based out of Southern California, Orange County area, and then all of my properties that I manage are in a big bear. So I live about 2 hours away from my listings. The quick synopsis, because I've told this story so many times how I got started is my parents had a second home in Big Bear and just as me and my sister got older, we weren't using it as much as a family and I always call it.

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Speaker 2

I got the hosting itch and there was just something that was like, Mom, dad, can I manage this place I like? I've heard of Airbnb, can I throw it on? I think it would do well and within one winter season of listing it, we made enough that my parents were like, Let's go all in. They took all that, put it to a down payment on a second property, and Big Bear had me manage that one.

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Speaker 2

And then from there I just had owners approach me. They were all neighbors that were like, We see our places are listed and yours are books too. Non stop, your reviews are great, your nightly rate is higher. What are you doing? Can you take over for us? So I started co-hosting for others and then finally my husband and I bought our own up there.

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Speaker 2

So I total manage nine and it's a mix of the one. We own the couple for my parents and then co-hosting for other owners. But yes, everything that you brought up, Big Bear is Big Boy has changed a lot. I personally am not investing there anymore and I tell others that I would not invest there at this point either.

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Speaker 2

And I always feel bad saying that because I think people are suspicious that I'm just like telling.

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Speaker 3

Them not to come because I like, keep it super.

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Speaker 2

But genuinely I just I the thing with Big Bear, like the there's so many listings there right now that the amount we're getting has dropped. We are still profitable because we purchased in 2021 and before and the mortgage is just low enough that we're still able to be profitable. There is one owner that I co-host for who purchased last year and they at the end of the year, we were reviewing documents and, you know, they were reviewing their taxes and everything.

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Speaker 2

And they literally said when we sat down to crunch the numbers, Natalie, you made more off managing than we did as the owners. Can you lower your commission? And it sucks, but it's like my I can't my job is my job. This is the percent I have to take to make it worth my while.

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Speaker 3

Wow.

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Speaker 2

It's not my fault you bought at a higher purchase price and your mortgage is higher.

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Speaker 3

So you know it's a.

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Speaker 2

I don't know, shitty answer to give, but you just you just have to make sure it's. Yeah. That the pricing is going to make sense for where where the market's at today. So and there's a lot of markets like that I think I think Joshua Tree is probably one of Smokey's. I think I think all the ones that people are talking about, it's probably too.

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Speaker 3

Late to go there, unfortunately.

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Speaker 1

I think it's such a I mean, that's a really interesting rule of thumb. Right. Which is like and that's that's been my personal journey with real estate in general is like by the time it is occurred to me that I should I should buy something there, it's too late. Like it's not. The fact that it's occurred to me means that it has already jumped the shark.

00:16:07:04 - 00:16:27:26

Speaker 1

So to me and you know, you're absolutely right. Like one of the things that, you know, we spend a lot of time talking about on the podcast is just like, okay, so where is the supply right now? And then in, you know, in conjunction to demand, right? So demand is, you know, probably growing at a nice clip for places like Big Bear, but supply has just over paced it.

00:16:27:26 - 00:16:45:10

Speaker 1

So it's just it's it to your point, it's going to be more competitive. It's going to be yeah. Yeah. And if you are a little bit over your skis on something like a mortgage rate where you're like, dang, like this is it's a little stressful for sure, which is so funny because like, you know, we've been, you know, getting some like couple eyebrow raisers.

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Speaker 1

We, we launch a best places to invest report every year. And this year there are places that people like I have never heard of that like, where the heck is Sheboygan? Right? Or like Fairbanks, Alaska. We've probably heard of it. What we did in that report is like we took a really hard look at invest ability, and that was all about what are housing prices doing right?

00:17:07:26 - 00:17:28:07

Speaker 1

Like, how are you going to get over your skis on something like a mortgage in relationship to what we think your profitability will be, your revenue will be in this this particular market. So we picked places that had sort of more slow and steady, solid demand. We didn't think the demand was going anywhere. Supply was still, you know, a little bit under and housing prices were great.

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Speaker 1

And also that sort of fourth part of it was the regulation which.

00:17:31:23 - 00:17:33:26

Speaker 3

Were in bear.

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Speaker 1

Right. And then another thing is like if you're starting to think about investing in a market that's it's probably too late, like they've already started to think about like what they should be doing for regular.

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Speaker 3

Yeah.

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Speaker 2

Yeah, it's tough and it's regulation is one of those I personally and somebody who I like run from regulation like anytime I see a city that has it, I'm like, No, but I don't want to do that one. But I've talked to a lot of hosts. Rachel Gainsborough is one who her whole thing is she actually loves cities with regulation because she says it really elevates the type of host that can be there.

00:18:06:27 - 00:18:13:26

Speaker 2

And if you are willing to jump through the hoops to keep up with that regulation, it's kind of a natural barrier to your competition joining.

00:18:13:26 - 00:18:15:25

Speaker 3

So there's I don't think.

00:18:15:25 - 00:18:19:24

Speaker 2

There's a right or wrong way to do it, but it's just definitely something you want to consider.

00:18:20:16 - 00:18:39:25

Speaker 1

Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Yeah. And to Uber, there are a lot of benefits, I think, of getting into a market that has sort of figured it out and, you know, like what the taxing is going to be, you know, what the rules are and operate. So there's it's already sales, right? Whereas like other markets where they're still trying to figure it out, that's got to make you a little nervous as a as a host or an owner.

00:18:40:00 - 00:19:04:22

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's so true. The cities I mean, Big Bear, we had in November, there was a huge election that luckily it went in our favor, but if it had passed, it would have it would have capped any new rentals from coming and it would have really, really crippled the business. We had. And and that is scary because Big Bear was kind of like infamously this town that was just sort of unincorporated, like do your own thing.

00:19:05:01 - 00:19:24:06

Speaker 2

And when they started proposing regulation, it was almost like they were trying to back work from like the decades where there was none and it was just coming down so extreme. Whereas there's other cities where there's been regulation for a long time. So if you jump into one of those, maybe at the most you'll just get a little raise and the permit fees or something.

00:19:24:06 - 00:19:33:21

Speaker 2

But yeah, it's kind of scary that the unincorporated ones, they do look more attractive, but there's just the risk that when they finally decide to implement something, they're going to go full force.

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Speaker 3

Yeah, Yeah.

00:19:35:26 - 00:19:42:07

Speaker 1

So true. Well, you mentioned that you're not going to continue to sort of put all your one big bear basket.

00:19:42:22 - 00:19:44:02

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:44:18 - 00:20:05:17

Speaker 2

I'm not ditching what I have there. It's, it's doing great and I love the business we built there. But yeah, I'm not planning to invest there anymore. And honestly, that's not just because of Big Bear itself and more regulation and you know, and the fact I think it's a little bit too much supply right now. It's also just personally, I think, a better business move, like you said, is to diversify.

00:20:05:28 - 00:20:17:14

Speaker 2

If we have like a slow winter season or when it's slow season and there my income just totally drops. And so I would love a market, a desert market or something that kind of offsets the seasonality with that.

00:20:17:29 - 00:20:46:19

Speaker 1

I think that's such a smart strategy. Right? And that's like and also, I think there's a lot of merit maybe because I'm a new in this business, I love just talking about like to oh geez, like you, they have been doing this for up There's a decent amount of smart strategy going into like I'm going to think about this one market, I'm going to think about this one sort of like audience group that travels to that place and how I can really cater to their needs because I want to unpack a little bit about like what was working so well for you when your neighbors were saying, Hey, hey, help me out.

00:20:46:19 - 00:20:46:26

Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:20:47:06 - 00:20:47:21

Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:20:48:01 - 00:21:07:07

Speaker 1

But then once you sort of got your, you know, sea legs about you and you're feeling really strong, then hopefully there's a lot of that strategy that you can replicate in other places. And so I think it's, you know, it's an evolution, right? Like, I think the thing I was talking to, one of the level of your listing attendees and it was like, you know, sometimes you try to boil the ocean, right?

00:21:07:07 - 00:21:09:16

Speaker 1

Some again, Oh my God, Like bingo, like.

00:21:09:16 - 00:21:11:07

Speaker 3

A small market, You.

00:21:11:07 - 00:21:12:12

Speaker 1

Know, somebody take.

00:21:12:12 - 00:21:15:22

Speaker 3

A while. The other said.

00:21:15:22 - 00:21:17:19

Speaker 1

Now it's like, I'm going to call you out for that one.

00:21:17:19 - 00:21:18:20

Speaker 3

Will love that one.

00:21:20:14 - 00:21:36:06

Speaker 1

But you don't have to. I just got to keep going because it's fun at this point. Like go 60, right? Like, you don't have to go from one listing to 20 in one year. Some people have done that and like, no major props to that. Major props to that. But for most of us, myself included, I think the slow.

00:21:36:07 - 00:21:38:00

Speaker 3

And steady approach is.

00:21:38:00 - 00:21:40:09

Speaker 1

Probably more, more our speed.

00:21:40:19 - 00:21:43:06

Speaker 3

Yeah, but yeah, I.

00:21:43:12 - 00:22:03:08

Speaker 2

I connect with that way better as well. And I'll tell you kind of what my strategy has been. I know right now boutique motels are all the rage. That's the trendy thing everybody wants to invest in. So the nine properties that I manage are actually all in the exact same condo complex. They're all condos. And so I have the same cleaner, the same handyman, and.

00:22:03:23 - 00:22:04:02

Speaker 3

It.

00:22:04:14 - 00:22:19:23

Speaker 2

Honestly happened that way organically because that was where the first property was that my parents invested in another one right there. That's where the neighbors were fighting us. And then my husband and I had our eyes on this one condo That was pretty rundown. We could get a good price and fix it up. So it happened that way by accident.

00:22:20:00 - 00:22:25:27

Speaker 2

But now I'm like, Oh my gosh, I accident. Like, you kind of built a boutique motel. You know, there's.

00:22:25:29 - 00:22:26:15

Speaker 3

50.

00:22:26:15 - 00:22:29:01

Speaker 2

Units in this complex. I'm managing almost ten of them.

00:22:29:01 - 00:22:31:27

Speaker 3

So 20% of the property needs are like.

00:22:32:08 - 00:22:56:15

Speaker 2

Managed by me. And it's the the scalability of it has been so easy. And I did not realize when I talked to other owners who have one here, one here, one here, one here, something in Florida, something in California has something in Texas. It is so difficult. You're managing nine cleaners, nine handymen, nine different ways, nine different regulations you have to keep on top of.

00:22:56:23 - 00:23:17:00

Speaker 2

So it's been really nice. My cleaners will show up to one unit, start laundry there, jump to the next one, start laundry there, and they just kind of hop their way around, go move things to the dryer and and keep going. So I really love what I bill in big there and kind of going that accidental boutique motel model and that's what I would like to do again.

00:23:17:27 - 00:23:41:20

Speaker 2

So once I find a different market, I'm all about like if we get like a single family home or something, I want to end up like managing that entire street of rentals. Like that is my goal now, or I'm actually sitting right now recording in an Airstream we bought for a short term rental. I'm still looking for a piece of land to park it, but I'm like, I want ten of these and just have the same cleaner run through all of them.

00:23:41:20 - 00:24:03:02

Speaker 2

So yeah, the the boutique motel model, if you can't go all out right now with buying a boutique motel because that's a huge undertaking, I think just buy one thing and start co-hosting around you or figure out how to kind of scale up. You've already got the cleaner and the team in place. That's the hardest part. You've already done the research to understand the regulation, pick up a few more there and just get that scalability.

00:24:03:15 - 00:24:13:05

Speaker 1

Oh my gosh, that's it's such a great scalability strategy, right? And I think, again, like, people kind of probably might try to diversify too soon. You're like, look, just like can same building, man.

00:24:13:11 - 00:24:14:05

Speaker 3

But yes, there's a.

00:24:14:05 - 00:24:23:26

Speaker 1

Bunch of places like that where it's like just same neck of the woods and it's so much easier for you to, you know, obviously make the connections you need. One smart, smart strategy.

00:24:24:07 - 00:24:45:02

Speaker 2

There's been so many like other things. I never thought of that have helped because of this, too. You know, we check people into one unit and God forbid there is a leak or the dishwasher is not working. Chances are across nine units, I've got another one open and I'm like, Hey, we're going to have to move you. I'll compensate you a little bit for the inconvenience of moving.

00:24:45:07 - 00:25:06:13

Speaker 2

But people are so amazed. Like people just have this idea that with Airbnb, if something doesn't work out with the listing, they're screwed. With a hotel, you can always get moved to another room, right? It's amazing to be able to tell people like, I got you. I know it's not exactly the listing you booked, but two doors down, I have another listing like check in will refund you a bit.

00:25:06:13 - 00:25:25:24

Speaker 2

And so there's been a lot of other kind of problem solvers that have come up. If we have a broken coffeemaker and one listing and the one next door is open, I will literally be like, Here's the code, sneak in still that coffeemaker, you know, and we'll deal with it later. So there's just been like a few things like that that, you know, you'll never I don't know you never think about.

00:25:25:24 - 00:25:30:02

Speaker 2

But like in the moment it's been a huge help to have those multiple listings.

00:25:30:20 - 00:25:52:06

Speaker 1

Oh, my gosh. Amazing. Yeah. No, like all that sort of. Well, let's call that, like, maybe the less sexy side of short term. It's all right. Which is. Well, one of the things that I find so refreshing. Now, what I love about that, Natalie, is like one of the things that I think a lot of people don't talk about, but you boldly do talk about is what I'd like to call the potentially unsexy side of short term.

00:25:52:06 - 00:25:54:01

Speaker 3

Rental, right? Yeah.

00:25:54:04 - 00:26:11:14

Speaker 1

Which is like, what do you do when your dishwasher breaks? What do you do when all of these things happened? Talk to me a little bit about like because I think that's a big part of your brand, right? Is the authenticity. When did you sort of make that decision that you weren't going to like, sugarcoat things? Like you're like, I'm just going to tell it how it is, guys.

00:26:11:27 - 00:26:30:19

Speaker 2

Mariah, that was truly from day one. I had I had no following like my Instagram and stuff. It was just my friends and family. And I just friends would ask me, like, you really Airbnb host Is it scary letting strangers in your place? And so right out of the gate it was like, yeah, my guests left a huge mess today like this.

00:26:30:27 - 00:26:41:16

Speaker 2

This is what I'm cleaning. And somehow that content, I guess because it felt more authentic, really took off. I don't know. The algorithm liked it and, you know, it kind of blew up from there and.

00:26:41:25 - 00:26:42:06

Speaker 3

Was so.

00:26:42:06 - 00:26:55:27

Speaker 2

Funny. I actually had no idea that there was an STR industry like I was just posting because my friends and family had questions and then I started getting DMS from people like, Are you going to be at this conference? And I'm like, What?

00:26:55:28 - 00:26:59:26

Speaker 3

Like Who are you? What are we talking about? So yeah, I.

00:26:59:26 - 00:27:19:12

Speaker 2

Kind of luckily the industry like embraced me and brought me in because I was just like over here doing my own thing, posting about how much guests bug me. And yeah, everybody is very welcoming. But yeah, that was honestly from day one, there was no strategy of like, I'm going to be the authentic creator. It was just like, You're the shit I deal with.

00:27:20:02 - 00:27:29:18

Speaker 2

Here's a guest who snuck in a dog and now their dog got whatever stuck in the snow and now they're complaining like, just stupid stuff like that.

00:27:29:18 - 00:27:31:17

Speaker 3

So yeah, well.

00:27:31:18 - 00:27:52:09

Speaker 1

That well, I think I one, I'm also a potentially too boldly authentic person myself. So one value your values, but I love to see when people choose to go that route in their in their story and their messaging and it pays off. So that's amazing and incredible. Well, you're also you and you and I also share something in common and that we're both working moms.

00:27:52:20 - 00:28:07:05

Speaker 1

So what I need to know, because I'm a new again in this business is Natalie. What tell me your your life hacks. How are you able to be swapping people's coffee makers, cleaning up after dogs and your children?

00:28:07:26 - 00:28:09:11

Speaker 3

Yeah, and my children.

00:28:09:11 - 00:28:11:25

Speaker 2

Yeah. Dog poop from guys. My kids poo.

00:28:11:25 - 00:28:12:19

Speaker 3

Yeah, they're a lot.

00:28:13:11 - 00:28:16:14

Speaker 2

Well, I feel like I should learn from you, because. How old are your kids?

00:28:16:20 - 00:28:18:28

Speaker 1

I think five and three. Five and three.

00:28:18:28 - 00:28:20:05

Speaker 3

So, yeah, you've been.

00:28:20:05 - 00:28:23:11

Speaker 2

Doing this longer than me, so mine are two and a half and one.

00:28:23:16 - 00:28:26:04

Speaker 3

Oh, my God. And yeah.

00:28:26:22 - 00:28:32:11

Speaker 2

I always feel when people ask me this question, I feel like I'm not giving the answer people want. But this is honestly the truth for me.

00:28:32:17 - 00:28:33:12

Speaker 3

When you said.

00:28:33:13 - 00:28:50:11

Speaker 2

First of all, I do. I do have a lot of help from my parents and my in-laws. Like they have been amazing. But the biggest thing is and I think it honestly just like helps to be able to work from home because I hang out with my kids all day that when there is like shit that hits the fan with a reservation.

00:28:50:19 - 00:28:52:01

Speaker 3

Right? I, I don't know.

00:28:52:01 - 00:29:08:06

Speaker 2

What it is, but I really just think that kids have like a sixth sense of when they need to chill out. Like I will tell my even though they're super young, they're two and a half and one. I feel like they know when I'm like reading a message that the water heater broke and I'm like kids, like, I'm so sorry I'm putting on Moana.

00:29:08:06 - 00:29:29:17

Speaker 2

I have to go and, like, make some phone calls and, you know, I don't know. There's just times where I've noticed if I'm like, hanging out with them and I'm on my phone all day, they seem more needy, like they can tell undistracted and not giving them attention. But if I'm present as much as I can be when disaster strikes, I am able to kind of be like I got to go for a bit.

00:29:29:17 - 00:29:34:09

Speaker 2

And they just like they just get it. They pick up when I like tense and I have to go deal with something so.

00:29:34:21 - 00:29:35:19

Speaker 3

Well, I don't know.

00:29:35:19 - 00:29:50:11

Speaker 2

I don't have this, like, amazing answer, but I just think you have to be like, honest with your kid. This whole talk we've been talking about authenticity, like carry that with your kids, too, you know? And even, like I said, I get help from my parents and my in-laws. And I think I really try to not abuse it.

00:29:50:11 - 00:29:51:03

Speaker 3

Like, you.

00:29:51:08 - 00:30:13:15

Speaker 2

Know, if I don't know, like there are times we've like, sacrifice, like date nights or something because I'm like, I needed their help a lot this week. Like stuff with business was tough and I just feel bad asking them to watch again. So, like, we just we were all. So there's still sacrifices you have to make. But I think I'm just very I really try to be transparent with everyone on like what's going on and including my one year old.

00:30:13:15 - 00:30:17:10

Speaker 2

Like somehow they just get it when you need to put your attention somewhere else.

00:30:17:16 - 00:30:18:07

Speaker 3

Yeah, well.

00:30:18:07 - 00:30:34:27

Speaker 1

You know what? I think it also is modeling while at least is what I tell myself. I'm like, Oh my. It's modeling good behavior for them for the future. Right? Which is just like to your point, like, let's just be authentic. Let's be transparent. Hey, I'm stressed out about this. I need your help here. So, like, I think it's teaching them that the world isn't all about.

00:30:34:27 - 00:30:38:10

Speaker 3

Them now, and.

00:30:38:10 - 00:30:56:01

Speaker 1

Also that they've got, you know, a badass mom who is, you know, doing really cool stuff and running a business and that, you know, I always I like at least I like to think when my kids have to overhear all of my work conversations and they're like, Hey, mom, can you be quiet? I can't hear the TV. I'm like, But I'm teaching you, teach you some business skills.

00:30:56:12 - 00:30:56:26

Speaker 1

I think.

00:30:58:23 - 00:30:58:28

Speaker 3

Like.

00:30:59:05 - 00:31:02:23

Speaker 1

Natalie, that was a great answer. I mean, my answers to yeah, I was like, TV.

00:31:04:01 - 00:31:05:24

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

00:31:06:04 - 00:31:07:26

Speaker 2

Sexist say, but like, TV comes.

00:31:07:26 - 00:31:08:20

Speaker 3

In handy, you know?

00:31:08:20 - 00:31:09:22

Speaker 2

And man, I.

00:31:09:22 - 00:31:11:24

Speaker 3

Remember when I was pregnant before the.

00:31:11:24 - 00:31:14:01

Speaker 2

First one, I was going to be the Montessori.

00:31:14:01 - 00:31:18:10

Speaker 3

Mom we were all raving about. That has not happened.

00:31:19:05 - 00:31:34:15

Speaker 2

But I mean, I do, I really do try. Like when I am not working, I really I'm like, this is my time. I cannot just mindlessly scroll like, I need to go hang out with them right now because when the next thing happens, like TV's not going to entertain them that long. So like, now it's my time to like, go be moms.

00:31:34:15 - 00:31:41:26

Speaker 2

So I think that's it. And it's so funny. And I'm sure you've experiences too. Like, have you ever noticed like the.

00:31:42:06 - 00:31:42:13

Speaker 3

It's.

00:31:42:13 - 00:32:04:28

Speaker 2

Weird, the busier you get, like, the more you get things done. I feel like when I am. Yes, like, I don't know, like in my third trimester when everybody was just like, just relax. Just do your own thing. I was just like, mindlessly scrolling and vegging out and I just felt like shit all over. And it's like when you're when you're busy, I, I don't know.

00:32:04:28 - 00:32:15:25

Speaker 2

I feel like I'm just like. I only have a pocket of time. Like, I have to go get this done. Like, busy people just get more done and, and like on Instagram and stuff. I'm very active on Instagram. Like, that's.

00:32:15:28 - 00:32:16:11

Speaker 3

Where.

00:32:16:19 - 00:32:37:05

Speaker 2

You know, most of my, like, following is and I all, all my other things, my courses, my podcast all gets promoted there. But I, I actually spend less time on Instagram now than I did before. I was a like, quote unquote influencer because it feels like a job now. And now I'm like, All right, I got to go record two reels and put those out and respond to DMS and then I'm over it.

00:32:37:05 - 00:32:41:22

Speaker 2

Whereas before I would go on and just like the content feed would just consume me.

00:32:41:22 - 00:32:44:03

Speaker 3

So, oh my gosh, yeah.

00:32:44:13 - 00:32:58:00

Speaker 1

You're being a little bit more intentional about that. You're definitely on to something there. I think like same idea, like you got a whole bunch of deadlines. I'm like, okay, cool, I've got to get this stuff done. But if it's like a looming deadline three months out, I'm like, Oh, I'll get to that.

00:32:58:00 - 00:33:04:02

Speaker 3

Like today before it's yeah, yep, Yeah. I think that's actually an expression.

00:33:04:02 - 00:33:14:28

Speaker 2

They say, like, if you want something done, ask a busy person. Like they just will fit it in when they have that one little pocket of time. And then other people who just think that they have endless time on the calendar will never get to it.

00:33:15:03 - 00:33:15:23

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:15:23 - 00:33:19:26

Speaker 1

The manana. Well, I always say, like, if you want something done, ask a working mom to do it, because.

00:33:20:29 - 00:33:21:13

Speaker 3

That's.

00:33:21:13 - 00:33:22:05

Speaker 2

A good one.

00:33:22:14 - 00:33:23:23

Speaker 3

See? Yeah. So all these.

00:33:23:23 - 00:33:39:21

Speaker 2

People who are like, how do you do it as a working mom? Like, I don't know, you just. You just do it. You just somehow, if you care about it enough, like, you'll just find the time to make it work. I don't know. That's kind of a woo woo answer. Like, I don't have an action plan for you or like a worksheet to follow.

00:33:39:21 - 00:33:45:26

Speaker 2

But just in my experience, like you, just if you care about it enough, you'll just find a way to make it work.

00:33:46:07 - 00:34:00:07

Speaker 1

100%. I think that's really wise advice. And sometimes I think all we need to hear is like, Hey, you got this. You're going to make it work. Like now. Yeah. I don't know the answer for you. You're an individual. What works for me might not work for you, but you are going to make it work. It is going to.

00:34:00:07 - 00:34:23:02

Speaker 1

So for all those females and and dead dads, moms, anybody, you're going to make this happen. It's going to work out. It always does. I love that. All right. So we we talked a little bit about your next investment strategy to talk to me about how your you know, of course, is the question I'm going to ask you, because we're already in a how are you researching right now what's sort of going into your investment thesis?

00:34:23:10 - 00:34:24:18

Speaker 3

Oh, okay.

00:34:24:25 - 00:34:26:08

Speaker 2

I'm like, embarrassed to tell.

00:34:26:13 - 00:34:29:03

Speaker 3

You know, might not be.

00:34:29:22 - 00:34:45:01

Speaker 2

So, you know, with Big Bear, the only reason I fell into that market is that's where my parents had a place, and that's where I saw opportunity to strike. And right now is the first time ever I feel like I am out there analyzing the market, the same as the average investor.

00:34:45:08 - 00:34:46:10

Speaker 3

I want to.

00:34:46:13 - 00:35:04:11

Speaker 2

Find over that whole thing when I was getting started. And so I'm kind of backtracking and learning. I feel like a lot of investors start with they they are now masters at market analysis because that's what they were doing and then they get caught up on the hosting part. I'm reverse. I learned how to think first and now I don't know how to analyze a market.

00:35:04:22 - 00:35:24:27

Speaker 2

So I'm very, very overwhelmed with this step. I will tell you the biggest thing that's the most important to me, though, is, yes, data and all of that. But I have to like the market that we're in, I am like, I'm not the type of investor that will just be like this random pinpoint on a map. Someone said it's good I'm running there.

00:35:25:04 - 00:35:43:23

Speaker 2

It has to be a place that I will find joy in visiting when I need to and want to be on the Facebook group. Want to research the area When I'm putting together the welcome block and the guide book like that, that's my first priority. So I have a few locations in mind that I actually would like to own property in.

00:35:43:23 - 00:35:46:26

Speaker 2

And then I'm kind of working backwards from that, running the numbers on those.

00:35:47:09 - 00:35:51:23

Speaker 1

I love it. Now, I think firstly, I don't know why you were embarrassed by That's a great strategy.

00:35:52:09 - 00:35:56:01

Speaker 3

And it's not like data driven, you know, talking to air DNA.

00:35:56:01 - 00:35:59:27

Speaker 2

And telling them that I just have to like the place is like, I feel embarrassed by that.

00:36:01:19 - 00:36:17:07

Speaker 1

No, I think that's I think that's a great place to start right. Like, there's a lot to say about what your instincts are telling you. And then you know what what of course, I will say is that then going in and sort of confirming those instincts and saying, all right, like, yes, there's there's a strong pulse for me to visit this place.

00:36:17:07 - 00:36:39:06

Speaker 1

I think it has, you know, capability to have good demand, travel demand for that reason, and then confirming of that through our data and other sources. And then I think then it's kind of like the fun stuff of. Right. Is like narrowing in, right? So like maybe I've got like sort of an area or like to your point, you're like thinking about so you're like, okay, now I'm looking at a few different desert markets and you're comparing and contrasting those.

00:36:39:12 - 00:36:56:07

Speaker 1

That's where shameless plug everyone alert, shameless plug. rDNA can come into play, right? Because then you can subscribe to those markets and start to really look at like, you know, even in that market, like, do I want to be right, you know, next to whatever the big attraction is there? Or can I be ten blocks away and still have solid revenue?

00:36:56:15 - 00:37:00:08

Speaker 1

You know what I what do I think is going to happen with the pricing, housing prices.

00:37:00:08 - 00:37:01:07

Speaker 3

All of that.

00:37:01:07 - 00:37:04:24

Speaker 1

So so how that strategy, Sister, not surprised at all.

00:37:05:15 - 00:37:06:06

Speaker 3

That when.

00:37:06:06 - 00:37:17:20

Speaker 1

We started I said that we make this podcast not snackable and then I just had so much fun talking to you that I could do, but I'm going to stop torturing you because you are a busy person or a busy person.

00:37:18:04 - 00:37:19:17

Speaker 3

We it's not torture.

00:37:19:18 - 00:37:22:19

Speaker 2

This has been lovely, but we can we can close out.

00:37:22:19 - 00:37:32:07

Speaker 1

But good, good. I'm glad. Yes. And again, for anybody else who wants to be on this podcast, Nathalie said it here first is not torture. Okay?

00:37:32:07 - 00:37:32:28

Speaker 3

It is not.

00:37:32:28 - 00:37:34:14

Speaker 2

Torture. It's actually been fun.

00:37:34:14 - 00:37:50:08

Speaker 3

Okay. We're having but really, they open for all of our guests. So for a but we're going to love it. That's the testimonial can be a guess. As Natalie Paul says, it's not talking smack. No. Think.

00:37:50:25 - 00:37:55:15

Speaker 1

Natalie, you underestimate how like how much I love a good joke. It could end up.

00:37:55:15 - 00:38:06:21

Speaker 3

Being like I've been like, well, I'm going to go leave of review after after this one gets posted. I don't listen to it. And being a guest is not torture.

00:38:07:25 - 00:38:09:26

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's going to be great. I'm going to frame it.

00:38:12:11 - 00:38:12:22

Speaker 3

As.

00:38:13:05 - 00:38:40:08

Speaker 1

Well as you can. Yes, we are having we are. All right. Well, I want to wrap up with another one more fun game and then I definitely want you to let people know where they can get more of your illness. So the gave is who, what, where. So the first question is who, apart from your lovely self, would you recommend folks go to or just either getting started or looking to expand in this business?

00:38:40:08 - 00:38:41:21

Speaker 1

We should they go to for advice.

00:38:42:08 - 00:39:10:05

Speaker 2

Okay. This person is actually not in the star industry at all. She's an interior designer, but her account, it's the bar to house on Instagram, be a RTA bar to house. Her whole thing is minimalism and like how to declutter your house and just following her. She hasn't like her account has nothing to do with the industry. So I'm sorry if this is like a bad answer to give.

00:39:10:05 - 00:39:11:11

Speaker 3

But she.

00:39:11:21 - 00:39:41:08

Speaker 2

Has just helped me so much. Like I read her. I like watch one of her reels and her space is just so cluttered and I'm just instantly like, I'm like, I need to go donate a trash bag full to Goodwill. Like, it's just been very, I don't know, with kids, there's so many gifts and so much laundry to do all the time and just following that account, I feel like has honestly given me so much time back, like I've purged so much and become such a more clutter free space that has given me the the brain capacity to grow the business and do other things.

00:39:41:08 - 00:39:45:20

Speaker 2

So the barter house absolutely love that account. It's been exactly what I've needed lately.

00:39:46:00 - 00:39:50:05

Speaker 1

I love it. I'm going to go follow it right now. And yeah, I think that, you know.

00:39:50:06 - 00:39:50:13

Speaker 3

Like.

00:39:50:19 - 00:40:08:17

Speaker 1

As we say in design, like a little white space is always a good thing. Like whether it's your real, how your house you live in or short term rental. All right. Well, the next question is, is what? So what do you wish you knew when you started back with your parents first unit that you now know?

00:40:09:29 - 00:40:34:23

Speaker 2

I think I just wish I gave myself more credit from the beginning because I got into it being like, oh, it's just my parents place. Like I'm just kind of managing something as a side hustle. And then just some neighbors approached me and I think if I had treated it more like a business from the beginning would have, you know, adopted a pricing software sooner and like started reading data sooner, everything.

00:40:34:23 - 00:40:50:15

Speaker 2

I was kind of just going off a hunch, like, Oh, I think winters will do more. I'll raise my prices. And I'm sure I left money on the table because I just didn't really understand. So that's probably the biggest like wherever you're at, even if it's just one listing right now, start to really treat it seriously like a business.

00:40:50:15 - 00:40:55:01

Speaker 2

It is, it is. So yeah, yeah. You don't own that title to be a business owner.

00:40:55:17 - 00:41:16:17

Speaker 1

I love that. I love that. Take yourself seriously. Take your business seriously. Lee as well. That's great advice. All right, so let's hop in our hot tub Time machines, as I like to call it, and go back where if you could go back, where would you have invested now? And knowing that you kind of fell into Big Bear, what where would you have gone?

00:41:17:12 - 00:41:40:05

Speaker 2

Personally, I would have if I could honestly go back and like, do do it all over. And like money and time was an issue. I would have bought some like dingy boutique motel or like Roadside Inn in Palm Springs. I love the desert. And just seeing how Palm Springs completely blew up, now there's so much regulation, but other properties were grandfathered in.

00:41:40:05 - 00:41:46:28

Speaker 2

And that's a that's a missed one. That would have been one I don't honestly guess wouldn't even have a chance to use it. I would have lived there full time.

00:41:48:00 - 00:41:48:17

Speaker 3

Yeah, but.

00:41:48:22 - 00:41:58:19

Speaker 2

That's like my dream property. If there is a way to if, if Palm Springs can fit in one more with the supply that they have, like, please let it be me. I am jumping at the bit to be there.

00:41:58:26 - 00:41:59:23

Speaker 3

Loving market.

00:42:00:00 - 00:42:02:12

Speaker 1

I love it. All right. Well, we're putting that out into the universe for you.

00:42:02:12 - 00:42:02:26

Speaker 3

I like that.

00:42:03:11 - 00:42:13:20

Speaker 1

Let's get that out there. Well, now it's been a pure pleasure. So if folks want more from you, which I'm sure they do, where can they fire? It sounds like insta ences where you're hanging.

00:42:13:20 - 00:42:32:21

Speaker 2

Instagram is my hub. Like everything I'm doing is always linked from there. And I'm just Natalie Palmer there and my podcast No Vacancy Here. You can also find me on there. And Mariah, we are going to have you on a super soon. So next couple weeks, let's get this scheduled because I want to have you on and do a whole day to deep dive episode.

00:42:32:21 - 00:42:39:21

Speaker 1

Let's do it. I would be more than happy to because I love your podcast. It would be a dream that would be I'd be like, oh, another milestone hit.

00:42:39:29 - 00:42:40:10

Speaker 3

Yes.

00:42:40:10 - 00:42:47:07

Speaker 2

Oh, all right. Well, scheduled that ASAP. And yeah, you guys will be able to hear from Mariah like two weeks after you hear this episode.

00:42:48:10 - 00:42:54:22

Speaker 1

I like you. You're not you're going to get sick of me. But, you know, I mean, quite often I'll try not to oversaturate the market, but, you know, data.

00:42:56:10 - 00:42:57:29

Speaker 3

It it it's needed. This is.

00:42:57:29 - 00:43:15:02

Speaker 2

You know, like, I'm telling you, like I'm almost embarrassed at how little I know on the data side. I just I go off things with with a hunch and it's I should be more responsible like backing it up with the numbers. And so I think it's important not to lose your intuition about a certain market and how you feel about it and if you would enjoy it.

00:43:15:12 - 00:43:20:21

Speaker 2

But yeah, like we said, you need to treat this like a business. And so if you don't have the numbers to back it, what are you doing?

00:43:21:03 - 00:43:36:07

Speaker 1

How will percent? Yeah, and yeah, you can definitely overindex on the data right To your point, if you take sort of the heart out of it completely and you're just making decisions on what the data telling you to do, you might be missing part of the nuance, right? Data can only take you so far. So it definitely is a combination.

00:43:36:15 - 00:43:45:23

Speaker 1

I'm sensing a fun game for us where we like are like, validate your hunches. So Natalie is thinking this market honestly. I mean, we go in and look and see.

00:43:47:07 - 00:43:48:09

Speaker 3

Okay, that's.

00:43:48:09 - 00:43:59:06

Speaker 2

What we're doing. We're going to do homework before our episode. I'm going to give you like 5 to 7 markets that I'm thinking of. And let's do like validate, validate what I'm what I'm looking at. I love that.

00:43:59:15 - 00:44:05:03

Speaker 3

It's going to be of those. Okay. So two weeks, from what you're hearing this come over to No Vacancy.

00:44:05:03 - 00:44:06:15

Speaker 2

The podcast for that episode.

00:44:07:13 - 00:44:20:24

Speaker 1

Now we're going to link to that in the show notes. No problem for such a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Let's have you on again soon. And I can't wait because one, I got to figure out where are you going to go? Where you're investing? We got to know what's how it's going. We need the update.

00:44:21:06 - 00:44:22:25

Speaker 2

I need a new market. I'm on the hunt.

00:44:22:25 - 00:44:23:25

Speaker 3

So, yeah.

00:44:25:02 - 00:44:29:22

Speaker 2

Thank you so much, Mariah. This has not been torture.

00:44:29:22 - 00:44:31:07

Speaker 1

Note, not torture.

00:44:31:09 - 00:44:32:04

Speaker 3

It's not me.

00:44:32:04 - 00:44:33:21

Speaker 1

Either. Thank you so much, Natalie.

00:44:34:07 - 00:44:34:24

Speaker 3

Bye.