SolutionsResourcesContact Us
Try for freeLog in

John Hildebrand: How property managers can take control of their short-term rental success in 2023

John Hildebrand and Mariah Kamei sat down to talk about the joys and challenges of operating short-term rentals. John is a seasoned owner and property manager who first started by renting out a room in his Malibu apartment to help pay his rent. As a kid, John moved frequently which fostered a love for real estate. His life experiences and that first shared-room listing launched a small management empire in Arizona. John is a self-professed real estate and STR addict who loves converting a new property into a special experience for his guests. He is the founder of Hildehomes.

John also shared his journey to advocacy through working with Rent Responsibly. He found his voice and is now in the public forum to ensure the STR industry can thrive. He leads the largest 501c coalition in the state and helps many cities stay ahead of regulation. He encourages everyone to get involved in advocacy by donating money or time and opening a dialogue in their neighborhood.

We also talked about how we’re in an industry correction where hosts who give 120% to their properties and focus on customer service and design will thrive. John’s advice is to use data to figure out what you can do differently and take back control of your listings and investment strategy.

~~~~

Signup for MarketMinder for FREE👇

https://www.airdna.co/vacation-rental-data/app/register

~~~~

Connect with John:

https://johnhildebrand.co

https://www.instagram.com/johnhildebrandsicky/?hl=en

~~~~

Book with Hildehomes:

https://hildehomes.com

~~~~

Connect with Mariah:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariah-kamei

~~~~

Explore Rent Responsibly, Boostly, and SuperHog here:

https://www.rentresponsibly.org

https://boostly.co.uk

https://superhog.com

~~~~

Connect with AirDNA on LinkedIn, Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/airdna 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/airdna 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@airdna.co 

Instagram: https://instagram.com/airdna.co

Listen On:

Transcript

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:17

When it doesn't feel like a slog to you,

when you're doing something that you love,

00:00:03:26 - 00:00:06:04

you're willing to put 120% into it.

00:00:06:05 - 00:00:09:26

But at the end of the day, it's like,

I love so much what I'm doing that

00:00:10:15 - 00:00:12:24

I never really feel like I'm working.

00:00:12:24 - 00:00:16:13

It's like if I'm working, it's

like I'm working on something that's fun

00:00:16:19 - 00:00:17:16

and I'm enjoying it.

00:00:17:16 - 00:00:20:09

So it's like it doesn't feel like work

every.

00:00:33:26 - 00:00:34:22

Hello?

00:00:34:22 - 00:00:37:08

Hello? John.

00:00:37:08 - 00:00:38:11

John.

00:00:39:10 - 00:00:40:24

How are you?

00:00:40:24 - 00:00:42:12

Oh, my. Goodness.

00:00:42:12 - 00:00:46:23

Firstly, I just want to start by saying

I got so excited to talk to you

00:00:47:01 - 00:00:50:12

because you and I

share a very similar life philosophy,

00:00:51:02 - 00:00:51:24

which is just

00:00:51:24 - 00:00:54:25

I mean, it's not even an acronym,

which my audience is going to be surprised

00:00:54:25 - 00:00:56:10

because I always have an acronym

for anything.

00:00:56:10 - 00:00:58:13

It's just like fun, fun.

00:00:58:25 - 00:01:00:28

If you're not

having fun, what's the point?

00:01:02:08 - 00:01:04:07

It's so true, man.

00:01:04:07 - 00:01:06:28

I probably have too much fun

some of the times, to be honest.

00:01:06:28 - 00:01:08:00

But yeah.

00:01:08:10 - 00:01:09:16

There's no such thing, John.

00:01:09:16 - 00:01:11:19

There's no such thing. Totally.

00:01:12:18 - 00:01:13:26

What was I thinking? What?

00:01:13:26 - 00:01:15:01

Let me rewind.

00:01:15:01 - 00:01:17:05

Yes. Fun. All the time. Duh.

00:01:18:07 - 00:01:19:26

Yeah. Duh. Like, what's that?

00:01:19:26 - 00:01:20:12

Well.

00:01:20:14 - 00:01:22:28

Well, I think we could talk a little bit

more about, like,

00:01:22:28 - 00:01:25:10

because everyone's

definition of fun is different.

00:01:25:20 - 00:01:27:23

This doesn't mean

that you're just out there,

00:01:28:03 - 00:01:30:17

you know, boondoggle

ing your way through world.

00:01:30:17 - 00:01:33:15

You're having fun

doing some very serious work, I would say.

00:01:33:15 - 00:01:36:18

But it sounds like to me,

you are finding the pleasure

00:01:36:28 - 00:01:40:00

in some of the little things

about your business,

00:01:40:14 - 00:01:43:13

which, by the way, is healthy homes.

00:01:43:29 - 00:01:47:18

You have built yourself

a tiny, little, tiny, big empire.

00:01:47:24 - 00:01:50:15

That sounded weird when I called it

Tiny, right?

00:01:50:15 - 00:01:51:01

Sorry.

00:01:51:01 - 00:01:53:27

No, no, it's relatively tiny, I think.

00:01:54:17 - 00:01:58:15

Oh, Classify myself

as in the smaller group.

00:02:00:08 - 00:02:01:02

I'm okay with that.

00:02:01:02 - 00:02:03:25

I'm okay with that. See, this is.

But you're secure.

00:02:03:26 - 00:02:06:00

You're like,

Listen, we're cool. We're cool.

00:02:06:03 - 00:02:08:11

Yeah. Tiny Empire. Yes.

00:02:08:11 - 00:02:10:06

I'm the new kid on the block. Still.

I get it.

00:02:10:06 - 00:02:11:01

I'm so.

00:02:11:20 - 00:02:12:25

That's part of the fun.

00:02:12:25 - 00:02:15:12

I like working my way up. I like learning.

00:02:15:12 - 00:02:17:07

I like getting kicked out.

00:02:17:07 - 00:02:18:25

I like, you know, the strategy.

00:02:18:25 - 00:02:21:12

Like, that's so fundamental to learning.

00:02:21:24 - 00:02:24:00

Oh, my gosh, that's a great life

philosophy.

00:02:24:00 - 00:02:26:03

Like, just if you can embrace that,

00:02:26:03 - 00:02:29:14

getting kicked out and picking yourself

back up and say, Well, that was a ride.

00:02:29:26 - 00:02:33:00

Yeah, I've had many of those world

class areas.

00:02:33:00 - 00:02:34:17

Yeah, I don't know.

00:02:34:17 - 00:02:38:06

I'm sure we'll probably talk about this

a lot more, but like, I just feel

00:02:39:10 - 00:02:43:04

like, as cheesy as it may

sound, like I have so much fun when I do.

00:02:43:04 - 00:02:45:01

Yeah, there's days where I'm like,

What am I doing?

00:02:45:01 - 00:02:47:00

This is corduroy. What?

00:02:47:00 - 00:02:48:26

This homeowner is not doing

00:02:48:26 - 00:02:51:29

what I want to do

or why am I buying this place or whatever.

00:02:52:17 - 00:02:55:10

But at the end of the day,

it's like I love so much

00:02:55:10 - 00:02:59:09

what I'm doing that

I never really feel like I'm working.

00:02:59:09 - 00:03:02:28

It's like if I'm working, it's

like I'm working on something that's fun

00:03:03:04 - 00:03:04:02

and I'm enjoying it.

00:03:04:02 - 00:03:06:24

So it's like it doesn't feel like work

every.

00:03:07:03 - 00:03:09:25

So, I mean,

I feel like I never work really,

00:03:09:29 - 00:03:13:16

but I work all the time,

so I kind of like, use that for

00:03:15:05 - 00:03:16:21

the fun bit.

00:03:16:21 - 00:03:19:04

Yeah. No, I write like,

the little preview.

00:03:19:04 - 00:03:20:13

Like, Ed.

00:03:20:13 - 00:03:22:23

We're, we're, we're very authentic.

In this podcast.

00:03:22:23 - 00:03:24:29

We talk to our our sound editor

all the time.

00:03:25:21 - 00:03:27:22

I might please edit that out there.

00:03:27:22 - 00:03:28:07

If you could.

00:03:28:07 - 00:03:29:19

If you could please cut that part.

00:03:29:19 - 00:03:30:29

Yeah, yeah.

00:03:32:08 - 00:03:34:08

No, I think that that's so important.

00:03:34:08 - 00:03:38:14

I mean that definitely resonates with me

and it is so interesting

00:03:38:14 - 00:03:42:02

because when it isn't,

when it doesn't feel like a slog to you,

00:03:42:02 - 00:03:44:05

when you're doing something that you love,

00:03:44:05 - 00:03:46:25

you're willing to put 120% into it, right?

00:03:46:25 - 00:03:50:04

You know, like it's

you may be actually working quite hard,

00:03:50:13 - 00:03:52:27

but you're so engaged and enjoying it.

00:03:53:08 - 00:03:58:15

So talk to me about

because I think you, like so many of us

00:03:58:15 - 00:04:03:11

sort of like were fortunate enough

to fall into this business.

00:04:03:11 - 00:04:04:05

Right.

00:04:04:17 - 00:04:06:29

I believe your origin story,

were you in Malibu?

00:04:07:00 - 00:04:09:23

Was it in Malibu or or Maui?

00:04:10:03 - 00:04:11:12

There are two ends, I don't know.

00:04:11:12 - 00:04:15:13

It's pretty close in involved, too.

00:04:15:22 - 00:04:17:19

But Malibu, go with your first choice.

00:04:17:19 - 00:04:19:13

Always, right?

Your first? Yeah, I knew it.

00:04:19:13 - 00:04:22:08

I knew it. Yes. Well, Ed, cut that out.

00:04:22:24 - 00:04:24:06

Yeah, exactly.

00:04:24:06 - 00:04:26:02

It's kind of weird

because, like, indirectly,

00:04:26:02 - 00:04:28:02

I feel like I've been part of the business

for so long as.

00:04:28:10 - 00:04:31:12

As a kid growing up,

we moved over 20 something times, like in.

00:04:31:12 - 00:04:32:02

Oh, wow.

00:04:32:02 - 00:04:33:08

And when we.

00:04:33:08 - 00:04:37:02

When my dad was growing in his business,

we would drive to neighborhoods

00:04:37:02 - 00:04:39:03

like, one day

we're going to have a house like that.

00:04:39:03 - 00:04:41:13

And we're always like, okay, cool. Yeah.

00:04:41:13 - 00:04:43:24

And then we'd move again

and then the house change.

00:04:43:24 - 00:04:47:03

And so I feel like we were always learning

about buying

00:04:47:03 - 00:04:50:03

and selling

and the real estate and understanding it.

00:04:50:09 - 00:04:52:17

And it was always a family

fun thing to do.

00:04:53:05 - 00:04:57:02

So when I was in Malibu,

I was a starving artist and photographer,

00:04:57:09 - 00:04:58:15

you know that story.

00:04:58:15 - 00:05:00:14

We're like,

What am I going to do with my life?

00:05:00:14 - 00:05:02:16

How can to figure this out?

00:05:02:16 - 00:05:05:26

I like taking pictures,

but I can't make a living like right now.

00:05:07:00 - 00:05:08:04

I rented a room

00:05:08:04 - 00:05:12:16

in my house in Malibu

and it just like, started paying my bills.

00:05:12:16 - 00:05:13:11

And then,

00:05:13:25 - 00:05:16:25

you know, I ended up getting the courage

to unlock in my own room

00:05:16:25 - 00:05:18:06

and renting the whole house out.

00:05:18:06 - 00:05:21:10

And I was like, Oh, okay,

this is kind of cool.

00:05:21:11 - 00:05:24:03

Like, these people are fun.

The stories have been fun.

00:05:24:03 - 00:05:29:16

I had zero clue what I was doing

like, whatsoever and no idea.

00:05:30:02 - 00:05:33:01

But it just

it just like worked its way out.

00:05:33:02 - 00:05:35:24

And I don't know, maybe back

then to people were

00:05:36:00 - 00:05:38:21

a little bit more understanding

because everything was new.

00:05:39:08 - 00:05:42:00

So if something came out,

they're like, Hey, by the way, you know,

00:05:42:09 - 00:05:43:23

this is not really working.

00:05:43:23 - 00:05:45:29

Like no one really cared as much.

00:05:45:29 - 00:05:48:09

Yeah, it was way more relaxed.

I feel like.

00:05:49:01 - 00:05:50:16

Yeah, no, you're totally right.

00:05:50:16 - 00:05:52:05

Yeah, like, I definitely remember it's

00:05:52:05 - 00:05:54:10

you did feel a little bit

more like you were rolling the dice.

00:05:54:12 - 00:05:55:04

Like, you'd be like,

00:05:55:04 - 00:05:57:14

Well, I'm just renting a room,

but it's like 25 bucks a night.

00:05:57:14 - 00:05:59:08

Great. Like. Yeah,

00:06:00:14 - 00:06:01:02

but I don't know what I'm.

00:06:01:02 - 00:06:01:17

Going to get.

00:06:01:17 - 00:06:04:25

I might have a roommate

that I didn't know about.

00:06:04:25 - 00:06:08:05

I just knew the other side

wasn't appealing to me anymore.

00:06:08:05 - 00:06:09:28

I did not want a full time roommate.

00:06:09:28 - 00:06:12:23

That was like, the biggest thing to me is

like, I don't want a full time roommate.

00:06:12:23 - 00:06:14:27

I want to come home to my space

00:06:14:27 - 00:06:17:27

and just like design, regroup,

get creative, and then

00:06:19:00 - 00:06:20:14

tackle that next journey, right?

00:06:20:14 - 00:06:22:07

Or whatever it is. Yeah.

00:06:22:07 - 00:06:24:03

I mean,

I honestly thought it would never work.

00:06:24:03 - 00:06:26:06

I thought this concept

was only going to last a few years.

00:06:26:06 - 00:06:28:06

Like,

there's no way this is going to work.

00:06:28:06 - 00:06:30:22

This is such a great idea.

00:06:31:02 - 00:06:33:06

I'll be the first to admit it.

00:06:33:06 - 00:06:34:20

I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

00:06:34:20 - 00:06:39:04

Well, you probably aren't the only one

that was like, Oh, this can't be a viable.

00:06:39:14 - 00:06:42:04

I think even when I got into the business,

which truly

00:06:42:04 - 00:06:45:21

it was only like 18 months ago,

I was, like, shocked.

00:06:45:21 - 00:06:47:21

I remember

Scott took me to this conference,

00:06:47:26 - 00:06:49:27

this tiny little conference

called Vermont.

00:06:50:12 - 00:06:50:20

Time.

00:06:52:01 - 00:06:54:01

In Austin, Texas, a couple.

00:06:54:01 - 00:06:56:01

And I was like, I had no idea

00:06:56:05 - 00:07:00:02

there were so many other businesses

attached to this business.

00:07:00:02 - 00:07:02:01

Yeah, it's wild. It's super wild.

00:07:02:17 - 00:07:03:22

It is so crazy.

00:07:03:22 - 00:07:07:01

So it's it's exponential growth, 110%.

00:07:07:27 - 00:07:10:13

So you weren't so yeah,

you were doing this kind of on a lark.

00:07:10:13 - 00:07:12:25

You're like,

great way to make some money on the side.

00:07:13:10 - 00:07:16:26

And then you and then you said, okay,

maybe this could be a bigger thing for me.

00:07:16:26 - 00:07:18:27

I'm going to rent out my whole house.

00:07:18:27 - 00:07:23:06

And then the question that I always have

for folks like you who do have tiny,

00:07:23:06 - 00:07:27:00

big empires is like,

How did you work yourself up?

00:07:27:00 - 00:07:28:29

Because I do think you bring up

something really important,

00:07:28:29 - 00:07:32:03

like nothing is scarier than right

before you buy a house.

00:07:32:03 - 00:07:32:11

You don't.

00:07:32:11 - 00:07:34:05

I mean, like, it's just the scariest.

00:07:34:05 - 00:07:36:24

Like, I just I'm always at the end

with the closing guy.

00:07:37:02 - 00:07:38:18

Actually, maybe we should pull out.

00:07:38:18 - 00:07:39:25

Like, what do we really want?

00:07:39:25 - 00:07:41:28

Are you sure we should do this? You.

00:07:42:26 - 00:07:43:22

So how did you.

00:07:43:22 - 00:07:45:01

How did you work up?

00:07:45:01 - 00:07:48:01

Sort of, I guess, the intestinal fortitude

00:07:48:04 - 00:07:52:27

to start to invest in short term rentals,

like what was that moment for you?

00:07:53:27 - 00:07:54:27

Well, I think

00:07:54:27 - 00:07:59:13

to rewind a little bit,

it's it's always having a good team around

00:07:59:14 - 00:08:03:08

you or or people that are smarter than you

00:08:03:08 - 00:08:06:02

in a certain space

or very educated in like real estate.

00:08:06:16 - 00:08:06:26

Right.

00:08:06:26 - 00:08:10:22

So it's like for me,

I just naturally enjoyed real estate as,

00:08:10:22 - 00:08:14:24

as a, as a buyer or,

you know, moving so many times as a kid.

00:08:14:28 - 00:08:17:00

Right. It to me was exciting.

00:08:17:00 - 00:08:19:23

It was always my mom and I

that were packing up the boxes

00:08:20:06 - 00:08:22:02

and trying to unpack them

on the next side.

00:08:22:02 - 00:08:26:20

You know, my other brothers were,

you know, maybe in college or whatever,

00:08:26:20 - 00:08:30:05

not doing,

but it was kind of just a fun thing.

00:08:30:15 - 00:08:33:19

So like, my my middle brother

00:08:33:19 - 00:08:36:21

lived in Malibu at the time also,

and he started getting into real estate.

00:08:36:29 - 00:08:40:08

So he became like the master

in real estate,

00:08:40:08 - 00:08:43:22

like really achieves

insane goals in real estate.

00:08:43:22 - 00:08:46:26

So him and I would talk all the time

about real estate.

00:08:47:02 - 00:08:49:23

I never personally wanted

my own real estate license, but

00:08:50:11 - 00:08:53:06

and then when this, you know, short term

rental thing came about

00:08:53:06 - 00:08:55:18

and they that conversation

and then I started ran in my room

00:08:55:26 - 00:08:58:27

he was kind of like asking me

more questions about that side of it.

00:08:58:27 - 00:09:00:15

So it was it was like a great

00:09:01:16 - 00:09:03:17

something to bring to the table

and have a conversation.

00:09:03:17 - 00:09:08:20

And he was always looking in a good

investment, you know, that made sense.

00:09:09:17 - 00:09:11:17

So I think like building

your team is really important.

00:09:11:17 - 00:09:14:24

I knew that I was in really good hands

when it came to the real estate,

00:09:15:08 - 00:09:17:28

and then he just kind of would trust me.

00:09:17:28 - 00:09:20:26

It's like, okay,

if you think you want to manage a property

00:09:21:01 - 00:09:24:12

and go for it, why don't you and I buy

a property together and invest it on it?

00:09:25:00 - 00:09:28:22

And I thought, well, okay,

I'll put in as much work as possible.

00:09:28:22 - 00:09:29:20

And then,

00:09:29:21 - 00:09:31:21

oh my gosh,

we would go to like 30 properties

00:09:31:21 - 00:09:33:24

with this guy and within 5 seconds

he would walk in.

00:09:33:24 - 00:09:35:25

Note, this is never going to work.

We're never going to build a room.

00:09:36:00 - 00:09:37:28

Oh, this is going to work.

Perfect of the numbers.

00:09:37:28 - 00:09:39:03

Don't make sense up.

00:09:39:03 - 00:09:41:09

I'm I, I just walked in the front door.

00:09:41:09 - 00:09:43:23

How do you

what is going on? Like, how are you

00:09:45:29 - 00:09:47:24

was I was like, okay, I'm in good hands.

00:09:47:24 - 00:09:52:05

I'm going to let him close in, negotiate

on this house, and we'll find the one.

00:09:52:17 - 00:09:53:11

So him and I did.

00:09:53:11 - 00:09:56:24

We invested in a place in Inglewood

next to the NFL

00:09:56:24 - 00:09:59:12

football stadium like two years before

it was getting built.

00:09:59:23 - 00:10:00:15

Oh, wow.

00:10:00:15 - 00:10:03:10

Where everybody was telling us

that's really risky.

00:10:03:10 - 00:10:04:13

I don't know about it yet.

00:10:04:13 - 00:10:04:27

You know,

00:10:05:17 - 00:10:08:19

there was I don't think there was any data

at the time because I don't remember

00:10:08:19 - 00:10:12:21

looking at any data on like I said,

I just looked at long term rent.

00:10:12:21 - 00:10:14:29

I'm like, okay, long term rent,

maybe I can double that.

00:10:15:03 - 00:10:17:14

Okay, that seems pretty pretty good data.

00:10:17:14 - 00:10:19:17

Sure. Yeah.

00:10:20:04 - 00:10:22:09

And then just put in the work, right?

00:10:22:09 - 00:10:27:12

So yeah, I was lucky to get like

somewhat education for moving, right?

00:10:27:20 - 00:10:29:19

And then my brother being in real estate,

00:10:29:19 - 00:10:31:17

I knew I was in good hands

when it came to real estate.

00:10:31:17 - 00:10:33:18

I knew I would over missed something or

00:10:35:05 - 00:10:37:26

yeah, I knew would get a good deal

if it was the right deal.

00:10:37:27 - 00:10:39:24

So we made a good team.

00:10:39:24 - 00:10:41:27

It was

it was a really fun experience, actually.

00:10:42:14 - 00:10:43:06

I love that.

00:10:43:06 - 00:10:45:01

I think that's such

an interesting point, right?

00:10:45:01 - 00:10:49:09

Because when you're in this business,

there is I think, the inclination

00:10:49:09 - 00:10:51:10

that you going to have to wear

a lot of different hats like you.

00:10:51:23 - 00:10:53:27

You got to be really good

at the real estate thing.

00:10:53:27 - 00:10:55:23

You got to be really good

at the hosting thing.

00:10:55:23 - 00:10:57:14

You got to be great at customer service.

00:10:57:14 - 00:11:00:01

You got to be graded in design like it is.

00:11:00:01 - 00:11:02:21

It can be quite a lot

like marketing promotion, like it can,

00:11:02:27 - 00:11:04:09

it can feel like quite a lot.

00:11:04:09 - 00:11:07:07

And so understanding

where your strengths are

00:11:07:07 - 00:11:10:21

and then finding partners

to go in with you on this

00:11:10:21 - 00:11:14:00

that have like, you know, what

you're missing in terms of knowledge.

00:11:14:00 - 00:11:16:02

And that's I mean, kudos to you.

00:11:16:02 - 00:11:18:21

That's super smart

because yeah, even just like the thought

00:11:18:21 - 00:11:21:12

of getting my real estate license,

I'm like, Wait, that looks like too much.

00:11:21:12 - 00:11:23:29

That's too much studying for me.

I don't know. Thank you.

00:11:24:09 - 00:11:26:15

Yeah, I have to read how many books.

00:11:26:28 - 00:11:29:08

Yeah,

I pretty much probably could pass it.

00:11:29:22 - 00:11:31:22

It is. Yeah.

00:11:31:22 - 00:11:33:05

You the education?

00:11:33:05 - 00:11:36:10

Yeah, but, man,

that's a lot of reading and test taking.

00:11:36:10 - 00:11:38:17

And I'm like,

I'm to let my brother do that.

00:11:38:28 - 00:11:40:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:40:03 - 00:11:42:02

That's the advantage to having siblings.

00:11:42:02 - 00:11:44:04

120%, actually.

00:11:44:04 - 00:11:44:28

Oh, my gosh.

00:11:44:28 - 00:11:47:13

Well, you gave me sort of this

very, like, lovely.

00:11:47:25 - 00:11:50:05

I'm going to call,

I got to say, warm and fuzzy,

00:11:50:05 - 00:11:53:28

like the sentiment of you with your mom,

like packing things up

00:11:53:28 - 00:11:57:03

and then unpacking things and just sort of

like to your point like that,

00:11:57:03 - 00:12:02:12

that new house excitement that like,

you know, the potential that a home owns.

00:12:02:12 - 00:12:06:00

And so it sounds like you got maybe a

little bit a little bit addicted to that.

00:12:06:00 - 00:12:07:29

Like you're like, yeah, let's new.

00:12:07:29 - 00:12:11:02

Beginnings fully like I can't even

00:12:11:12 - 00:12:13:24

I'm straight addicted, no question.

00:12:14:07 - 00:12:16:13

I go to real estate a like

00:12:18:10 - 00:12:19:28

it's like a drug man.

00:12:19:28 - 00:12:23:04

The excitement, the nervousness,

like is it going to work?

00:12:23:04 - 00:12:24:16

Is it not going to work?

00:12:24:16 - 00:12:28:07

Like there's so many things

that are going on and so fast,

00:12:28:09 - 00:12:31:24

especially in like these markets,

like L.A., Malibu Market was insane.

00:12:31:24 - 00:12:33:28

Arizona market was insane, right?

00:12:34:10 - 00:12:38:14

So I don't know that adrenaline is like,

oh my gosh, is this the right one?

00:12:38:14 - 00:12:41:06

Like and then once you get it,

you're like, yes,

00:12:41:06 - 00:12:43:29

you feel like you won

something. You're like, so excited.

00:12:44:01 - 00:12:45:09

You're like, This is my place.

00:12:45:09 - 00:12:49:11

Like, And then like, I just have the

I just go overboard

00:12:49:11 - 00:12:52:28

with like, the passion and excitement of,

like converting this home

00:12:52:28 - 00:12:53:28

into something special.

00:12:53:28 - 00:12:59:11

It's like, so fun to me, like, every step

of the way, except maybe the permits.

00:12:59:19 - 00:13:00:13

Permits? Yeah.

00:13:00:13 - 00:13:02:16

I'm working into something that's so fun.

00:13:02:16 - 00:13:04:17

Yeah. No. Yeah, I know that.

00:13:04:19 - 00:13:06:09

That's what always sort of stops me.

00:13:06:09 - 00:13:08:08

I always find that very daunting.

00:13:08:08 - 00:13:12:23

But what I like there is sort of like

if you can change your mindset and mindset

00:13:12:24 - 00:13:15:12

such a big part of it

where you change your mindset

00:13:15:12 - 00:13:18:16

and what you're thinking is like,

No, I am like, this is a blank canvas.

00:13:18:16 - 00:13:19:20

Like you're a creative person.

00:13:19:20 - 00:13:22:29

You're like,

I'm going to build an experience right?

00:13:22:29 - 00:13:26:15

And like and I think that there's

something so wonderful and what I,

00:13:26:15 - 00:13:30:07

what I find as a guest of Airbnbs

and short term Rentals is like

00:13:31:17 - 00:13:32:28

it comes for, right?

00:13:32:28 - 00:13:37:25

If you stay at a place that's like

super generic, like, you know, you like

00:13:37:25 - 00:13:40:23

there's something nice about timelessness,

but it doesn't feel like a home.

00:13:40:23 - 00:13:43:04

It doesn't feel like you're having

an experience versus like,

00:13:43:13 - 00:13:47:00

you know, somebody put a lot of effort

into like putting a mural up or like

00:13:47:04 - 00:13:50:18

really catering to like the environmental

urine deserts, right?

00:13:50:18 - 00:13:51:21

So like, what does it look like?

00:13:51:21 - 00:13:54:24

I'm sure each one of your houses

has like a salt room or something.

00:13:54:29 - 00:13:56:17

Like some place.

00:13:56:17 - 00:13:56:21

With.

00:13:56:21 - 00:13:58:07

Crystals.

00:14:00:12 - 00:14:00:19

Maybe.

00:14:00:19 - 00:14:01:15

I need that.

00:14:01:15 - 00:14:03:09

Yeah.

Put it on your list, John. Put it on.

00:14:03:09 - 00:14:05:04

I don't want salt rooms.

00:14:05:04 - 00:14:07:08

Yeah,

I was like, okay, maybe she's honest.

00:14:07:08 - 00:14:08:17

Maybe she has been dating.

00:14:08:17 - 00:14:11:03

I don't know about salt room searching.

00:14:11:03 - 00:14:13:00

It's through the roof and.

00:14:13:00 - 00:14:15:11

I'm going to make it happen. I'm

the only one.

00:14:15:11 - 00:14:18:21

And this is based

on, like, one trip to Sedona and, like.

00:14:18:27 - 00:14:19:19

There you go.

00:14:19:19 - 00:14:21:10

There wasn't a salt room at the house.

00:14:21:10 - 00:14:24:09

We stayed out, but, you know, it felt like

the place where you should have, like.

00:14:24:20 - 00:14:25:25

I feel you. Okay.

00:14:26:25 - 00:14:28:02

I understand why

00:14:28:02 - 00:14:31:26

we have a salt bath,

If that helps, We could help a lot.

00:14:32:01 - 00:14:35:09

Yes, but, yeah,

I think that stuff is so fun, man.

00:14:35:24 - 00:14:39:11

And, like, I still get so nervous, like,

the first five six guests

00:14:39:23 - 00:14:42:11

because I'm like, Oh, God,

when I forget what I forgot.

00:14:42:11 - 00:14:43:09

What am I missing?

00:14:43:09 - 00:14:45:01

Like with the Wi-Fi password?

00:14:45:01 - 00:14:48:18

Oh, did I tell guests how to check

in, like, and then they get in.

00:14:48:19 - 00:14:51:21

You're just like on pins and needles

waiting for them to, like, respond.

00:14:51:22 - 00:14:55:01

You're like, okay. Oh, oh, oh.

00:14:55:02 - 00:14:56:22

So far they roll back.

They said, It's amazing.

00:14:56:22 - 00:14:57:12

Everything's been great.

00:14:57:12 - 00:15:00:04

You're like, okay, calm down

just a little bit.

00:15:00:04 - 00:15:03:00

And that let them enjoy it

and then I'll reach out to them

00:15:03:00 - 00:15:07:05

when they check out, make sure, Oh,

I love the whole journeys.

00:15:07:05 - 00:15:08:11

Fine, man.

00:15:08:18 - 00:15:11:27

Well, I'm sure your get I mean, again,

I think that that like the

00:15:12:07 - 00:15:15:19

the passion you have for it

and the level of caring that you have,

00:15:15:19 - 00:15:17:26

I'm sure comes through

to the guests. Right.

00:15:18:10 - 00:15:20:22

Just in small ways.

It's like you said, like reaching out.

00:15:20:22 - 00:15:22:01

Say, hey, did you get in okay?

00:15:22:01 - 00:15:25:20

Is every I mean, I've stated every piece

where that isn't the case. No.

00:15:26:12 - 00:15:28:13

And quite a few that I'm like,

00:15:28:28 - 00:15:31:21

that doesn't look like you're

putting your heart and soul into there.

00:15:31:21 - 00:15:32:22

But. Okay.

00:15:32:22 - 00:15:35:19

Yeah, yeah, I I've seen that.

00:15:35:19 - 00:15:39:04

And even though I struggle with it

a lot of times because my ultimate dream

00:15:39:04 - 00:15:43:00

always is to buy and have the control

over buying, partnering with someone

00:15:43:00 - 00:15:44:26

who wants to buy or myself buy,

00:15:44:26 - 00:15:45:10

and then

00:15:45:10 - 00:15:48:25

I have the creative control to be like,

this is what is needed in this area.

00:15:48:25 - 00:15:51:02

We have to have this.

We have to have that.

00:15:51:02 - 00:15:52:26

We got to have all these fun amenities.

00:15:52:26 - 00:15:56:03

We got to have a big screen TV

with Sonos like, right?

00:15:56:06 - 00:15:59:03

And then trying to work

with like a homeowner because I do

00:15:59:03 - 00:16:02:23

manage some properties

and really selective on that.

00:16:02:23 - 00:16:06:11

And I'm getting more selective

because I realize that maybe

00:16:07:08 - 00:16:10:26

the education or lack of education

with homeowners, maybe

00:16:11:05 - 00:16:14:27

it's like, Hey, I put my house on Airbnb,

take a couple of photos and I'm rich.

00:16:15:05 - 00:16:15:17

You're like,

00:16:17:16 - 00:16:19:21

pump the brakes a little, you know?

00:16:19:21 - 00:16:21:23

And sometimes it gets hard

because you're like,

00:16:21:23 - 00:16:24:08

No, you have to put in a heater

for your pool. What?

00:16:24:08 - 00:16:26:05

That's for Gran. I'm sorry.

00:16:26:05 - 00:16:28:24

I can't help you

unless you have a heater in your pool.

00:16:28:28 - 00:16:30:16

There's only so much I do.

00:16:30:16 - 00:16:33:18

You know,

that part gets a little stressful.

00:16:33:18 - 00:16:36:11

Or, like, where do you put your foot down?

00:16:36:11 - 00:16:37:20

You're like, Okay, this is going to hurt.

00:16:37:20 - 00:16:38:26

I guess. Experience.

00:16:38:26 - 00:16:40:25

Like,

maybe this isn't the right fit for me.

00:16:41:06 - 00:16:41:26

Right? Right.

00:16:41:26 - 00:16:44:04

Well, you have a brand, right,

that you're like, if I

00:16:44:04 - 00:16:48:21

if you're under my portfolio, like there's

a level of a standard that we have.

00:16:48:21 - 00:16:49:00

Right.

00:16:49:00 - 00:16:52:14

And I want to talk a little bit more

about the Airbnb versus direct booking.

00:16:53:02 - 00:16:55:06

But yeah,

you have a brand that you're protecting.

00:16:55:06 - 00:16:55:22

Well, it's so funny.

00:16:55:22 - 00:16:58:25

I was just talking to somebody else

about this and the concept of like

00:16:58:25 - 00:17:02:18

managing homeowner expectations and like,

how can you

00:17:03:09 - 00:17:06:06

sort of take something that to them

may feel very subjective, right?

00:17:06:06 - 00:17:08:08

Like you're saying,

no, you need a heater in your pool

00:17:08:16 - 00:17:12:29

and then using something like data,

shameless plug alert to actually

00:17:13:14 - 00:17:16:06

show them, okay,

look at the other properties in your area.

00:17:16:11 - 00:17:19:27

Look at the amenities

they have, look at what they're making.

00:17:19:27 - 00:17:23:03

And hey, spoiler alert,

they're making 20 to 30% more

00:17:23:03 - 00:17:26:23

because they have the salt baths

that you don't have.

00:17:26:23 - 00:17:29:26

So you're going to make back

that $4,000 investment.

00:17:29:26 - 00:17:30:28

And the first year.

00:17:30:28 - 00:17:31:04

Right.

00:17:31:04 - 00:17:34:23

Like, I mean, there's a lot of stuff

there that is interesting.

00:17:36:05 - 00:17:36:25

Well, I

00:17:36:25 - 00:17:40:26

so because you're an OG Airbnb

and I love talking to anybody that did

00:17:40:26 - 00:17:44:02

sort of like Yeah, like just renting out

rooms just started

00:17:44:14 - 00:17:46:29

you know our founder Scott Stratford

same thing, right.

00:17:46:29 - 00:17:48:26

Like he rented out his apartment,

00:17:48:26 - 00:17:52:07

traveled through Asia and was like,

How did I just make all this money?

00:17:52:07 - 00:17:54:08

Like, yeah, so.

00:17:55:00 - 00:17:56:25

There's something that are there.

00:17:56:25 - 00:17:59:16

Do you have a long relationship

with Airbnb?

00:17:59:19 - 00:18:03:19

I would say I would say you've

had a quite, quite a history with them.

00:18:04:26 - 00:18:09:08

How are you sort of do

how are you navigating that balancing act?

00:18:09:08 - 00:18:09:28

Because I think like

00:18:09:28 - 00:18:12:29

what's so great that I've noticed you've

done is on your website, right?

00:18:12:29 - 00:18:14:22

You have direct bookings.

00:18:14:22 - 00:18:17:03

Again, you're building your brand.

00:18:17:03 - 00:18:19:07

How would you

what advice would you give folks?

00:18:19:07 - 00:18:21:10

I'll land the plane. You're like,

what's her question?

00:18:21:16 - 00:18:24:28

Does she have like,

wait a minute, that was right there

00:18:26:07 - 00:18:27:01

for me.

00:18:27:01 - 00:18:28:02

Yeah, I like.

00:18:28:02 - 00:18:30:04

Where is the question of the statement?

00:18:30:26 - 00:18:31:25

Yeah, I would.

00:18:31:25 - 00:18:32:28

So funny I do.

00:18:32:28 - 00:18:37:16

I really like this question and, and I

get this question and I feel like I where

00:18:38:18 - 00:18:41:00

multiple hats in this piece. Right?

00:18:41:00 - 00:18:43:21

And I feel that

I have to be totally truthful.

00:18:43:21 - 00:18:49:02

And I do feel extremely lucky

to be a part of of Airbnb in that journey.

00:18:49:02 - 00:18:51:01

Like I said,

I had no clue what I was doing.

00:18:51:01 - 00:18:54:23

I didn't have the slightest idea

about software or none of it.

00:18:54:23 - 00:18:58:11

And Airbnb just made it so easy that

00:18:58:27 - 00:19:02:11

even if you were scared,

you knew you had somebody to lean on.

00:19:02:20 - 00:19:04:19

And I was like,

I can call customer service.

00:19:04:19 - 00:19:05:20

I can ask for help.

00:19:05:20 - 00:19:08:19

Like, okay, I'm not completely my own,

whatever.

00:19:08:19 - 00:19:10:15

I'm just going to try it.

Let me just try it.

00:19:10:15 - 00:19:11:26

And then as it grew,

00:19:13:02 - 00:19:13:25

I just

00:19:13:25 - 00:19:17:19

kept diving more and more to Airbnb

versus lack of education.

00:19:17:19 - 00:19:19:27

I guess I thought that was

the only way you did it.

00:19:19:27 - 00:19:21:14

I had no idea, right?

00:19:21:14 - 00:19:24:23

I didn't even know anything else existed.

00:19:24:23 - 00:19:28:11

But I've always been like a brand person,

so I knew from day one

00:19:28:11 - 00:19:33:02

I wanted to build a brand, even if it was

my own name or healthy Homes.

00:19:33:02 - 00:19:37:01

Like, I just enjoy the brand aspect of it.

00:19:37:01 - 00:19:41:26

I think it identifies, you know, okay,

this brand is doing great things.

00:19:41:26 - 00:19:43:28

Let's let's see

if they have other properties.

00:19:44:10 - 00:19:46:16

So that was always really important to me.

00:19:46:16 - 00:19:51:14

An Airbnb at the time or now

still was the biggest brand.

00:19:51:22 - 00:19:55:06

So for me I was like, okay,

I want to learn as much as I possibly can

00:19:55:13 - 00:19:56:11

and educate.

00:19:56:11 - 00:19:58:20

So as I went

through this journey with Airbnb,

00:19:58:29 - 00:20:03:21

I applied to be a photographer one time

where it was like a staff photographer

00:20:03:21 - 00:20:07:10

and I started shooting for Airbnb,

not for the money.

00:20:07:10 - 00:20:09:09

It was more just like

I just wanted to learn.

00:20:09:09 - 00:20:11:15

I wanted to see other people's listings.

00:20:11:15 - 00:20:13:04

Oh, that's so cool.

00:20:13:04 - 00:20:15:01

What Airbnb thought about photos.

00:20:15:01 - 00:20:18:04

Like they're like, Hey, we don't like

the lights on, we don't like angles.

00:20:18:05 - 00:20:18:15

I'm like,

00:20:19:14 - 00:20:21:01

okay, this is very interesting.

00:20:21:01 - 00:20:22:21

I love this. You were like, infiltrating.

00:20:22:21 - 00:20:25:08

You were like a super powerful spy.

00:20:27:07 - 00:20:29:08

That's a good.

00:20:29:08 - 00:20:29:22

Yeah.

00:20:29:22 - 00:20:33:19

And then one thing, this led to another

with the lockdown and all that stuff.

00:20:33:27 - 00:20:34:25

Yeah, I was

00:20:34:25 - 00:20:38:29

just in the process of one of my places

in Scottsdale, become an A-plus listing.

00:20:39:13 - 00:20:41:28

And I went through months of going back

00:20:41:28 - 00:20:45:15

and forth to Airbnb and styling

and just learning so much.

00:20:45:15 - 00:20:46:22

It was like, unreal.

00:20:46:22 - 00:20:49:01

I was like, Wow, I have a lot to learn.

00:20:49:01 - 00:20:52:19

And I built something pretty cool here

that Airbnb

00:20:52:19 - 00:20:55:21

is reaching out, wanting to add me

as a plus, like, Wow, this is really cool.

00:20:56:01 - 00:20:56:18

Totally.

00:20:56:18 - 00:21:01:11

But then the literally the last steps

was photos and the lockdown happened.

00:21:01:11 - 00:21:05:03

They're like, Sorry, we're not going

to be able to live and I'm like, funny,

00:21:05:19 - 00:21:08:08

funny thing is, I'm a photographer

and actually shot

00:21:08:08 - 00:21:11:16

for you guys with Airbnb before

I know what I'm doing.

00:21:11:17 - 00:21:13:03

How about I shoot it?

00:21:13:03 - 00:21:15:05

And they're like, Oh my God, like 100%.

00:21:15:05 - 00:21:17:05

I so I shot it. I submitted.

00:21:17:05 - 00:21:20:00

The photos are like,

Oh yes, this is perfect.

00:21:20:00 - 00:21:22:16

Approved, approved, barely snuck in.

00:21:22:16 - 00:21:26:04

I think I was the last listing

before the whole plus department went,

00:21:26:14 - 00:21:29:03

you know, went under, which was sad.

00:21:30:16 - 00:21:31:05

The love thing.

00:21:31:05 - 00:21:35:15

Yeah, but that was opening all those doors

within Airbnb reached out to me

00:21:35:15 - 00:21:38:28

and they're like, Hey, we're starting

this program about ambassadors.

00:21:38:28 - 00:21:42:11

Ask a super housing

educated new host to join the platform.

00:21:42:11 - 00:21:45:27

And I was like, Sign me up, love,

this sounds so fun.

00:21:45:28 - 00:21:47:02

I'm like, all.

00:21:47:02 - 00:21:48:26

And they had no agenda where it was going.

00:21:48:26 - 00:21:50:27

I was like, I think there was only two

00:21:50:27 - 00:21:54:26

two other people that were in this program

and nobody knew where it's going.

00:21:54:27 - 00:21:57:22

Airbnb employees had no idea.

We had no idea.

00:21:57:22 - 00:21:59:29

It was just like, okay, sounds cool.

00:21:59:29 - 00:22:02:07

Yeah,

let's let's see where this goes, right?

00:22:04:11 - 00:22:07:07

So I think the other side of that question

was, you know,

00:22:07:07 - 00:22:11:21

you're really deep in bed with Airbnb

and the direct direct bookings, right?

00:22:11:21 - 00:22:12:16

So I think like, Well.

00:22:12:16 - 00:22:14:23

Yeah, thanks for helping me

with my question time.

00:22:14:23 - 00:22:17:01

For starters, I had to take it to be here.

00:22:17:01 - 00:22:19:01

I was like, okay, part two of Dream.

00:22:21:03 - 00:22:24:03

Yeah, I think direct booking

just goes straight to building a brand.

00:22:24:03 - 00:22:27:16

I think Airbnb understands

and Airbnb knows that like

00:22:29:10 - 00:22:31:07

they can only capture you for so long.

00:22:31:07 - 00:22:31:24

Right?

00:22:31:24 - 00:22:34:22

And as much as I love Airbnb,

there is definitely floors,

00:22:34:22 - 00:22:38:02

there's definitely headaches,

there's definitely complications.

00:22:38:02 - 00:22:40:29

Right. But the good way is the evil.

00:22:40:29 - 00:22:43:02

You just have to pick your battles

you can find.

00:22:43:10 - 00:22:44:02

I don't really.

00:22:44:02 - 00:22:46:01

I'm not a guy

that likes to sit on the negatives.

00:22:46:01 - 00:22:47:23

I'm like,

Let me just figure something out.

00:22:47:23 - 00:22:49:20

How to do fix it.

00:22:49:20 - 00:22:50:13

Right?

00:22:50:13 - 00:22:50:18

You know,

00:22:50:18 - 00:22:54:08

I think Airbnb understands that, like,

as long as you're not crossing the line

00:22:54:08 - 00:22:57:10

and trying to promote your direct booking

like crazy through their platform, and

00:22:58:05 - 00:23:00:27

I don't think there's any harm

to be done at the same time.

00:23:01:19 - 00:23:06:02

But direct booking has was

one of those things that was beyond scary.

00:23:06:02 - 00:23:09:09

I was like, This is scary. I'm on my own.

00:23:09:09 - 00:23:11:10

I got to insurance,

I got to get paperwork.

00:23:11:14 - 00:23:14:18

I got ooh, it's

yeah, I got to in a website. Like

00:23:15:18 - 00:23:18:06

it took me

way too long to finally go down that path.

00:23:18:06 - 00:23:21:17

But that's a good that you bring up

a really good point

00:23:21:17 - 00:23:24:13

because I think sometimes people

sort of make it seem easy.

00:23:24:13 - 00:23:27:04

They like go direct bookings

and it's like, Well, wait a minute.

00:23:27:04 - 00:23:30:13

Like there's a you know, again,

there's there is a benefit to going

00:23:30:13 - 00:23:33:17

for a set with someone who is handling

a lot of the stuff like the insurance

00:23:33:17 - 00:23:37:24

and the cancellation policies

and everything else for you.

00:23:38:12 - 00:23:41:12

Well,

may I ask you a somewhat loaded question?

00:23:41:12 - 00:23:44:06

Not loaded, but I just like putting you

on the spot a little bit.

00:23:44:17 - 00:23:46:05

Are you still doing both?

00:23:46:05 - 00:23:48:09

Are you listing on Airbnb and direct?

00:23:48:09 - 00:23:50:09

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:50:09 - 00:23:52:27

How much of how much of your business

is coming from direct?

00:23:53:22 - 00:23:55:24

Not enough, to be honest.

00:23:55:24 - 00:23:58:07

It's still such a learning curve.

00:23:58:07 - 00:23:59:23

Oh, interesting. You know, and

00:24:00:25 - 00:24:04:07

I'm still very I'm probably way

more selective on

00:24:04:07 - 00:24:08:03

who books direct

just because of all those unknowns.

00:24:08:10 - 00:24:09:15

Right, right, right.

00:24:09:15 - 00:24:11:26

You're like, do I have to run a background

check on you now?

00:24:11:26 - 00:24:13:29

I have to stock you on Google.

Who are you?

00:24:14:08 - 00:24:16:16

Yeah, And yes,

I do have to do all of that.

00:24:16:16 - 00:24:20:21

So like so, yeah,

I mean, I work really close with Super Hog

00:24:20:21 - 00:24:24:07

that does all my background checks

because in Arizona it's a state law.

00:24:24:08 - 00:24:27:27

We have to, you know,

so that's one less hurdle that makes it

00:24:28:00 - 00:24:32:26

a little easier to do direct booking,

you know, setting up all your info and

00:24:33:05 - 00:24:36:26

and then just trying to be a human

to the next person on the other line.

00:24:36:26 - 00:24:38:15

You know,

they're like trying to rent your place.

00:24:38:15 - 00:24:42:24

You're like, okay, let's let's jump on

an old school phone call or some emails.

00:24:43:01 - 00:24:46:20

Most direct bookings I feel like

have come through a source that I trust

00:24:46:21 - 00:24:50:03

either my Instagram

or a friend of a friend,

00:24:50:03 - 00:24:52:29

or maybe they stayed with me before

and Right.

00:24:52:29 - 00:24:53:16

I'm family.

00:24:53:16 - 00:24:54:19

They're coming back.

00:24:54:19 - 00:24:57:10

So right now

I'm kind of like in that phase.

00:24:57:10 - 00:24:59:10

But I think it's really, really important.

00:24:59:15 - 00:25:04:10

Yeah, but I think it honestly helps

you with your Airbnb as well.

00:25:04:10 - 00:25:07:26

I think they both go hand in hand

when you're building a brand.

00:25:07:26 - 00:25:12:26

My thought is that brand sits on Airbnb

still or verb or Booking.com or whatever.

00:25:12:26 - 00:25:14:08

Right, right, right.

00:25:14:08 - 00:25:17:21

Google you maybe then

maybe the guest isn't comfortable

00:25:17:23 - 00:25:21:12

yet booking direct because that's

still a learning curve, I feel like.

00:25:21:22 - 00:25:24:26

But then if they see you on Airbnb

and it's still branded the same,

00:25:25:03 - 00:25:28:06

has the same messages like, okay,

this guy knows what he's doing,

00:25:28:12 - 00:25:29:27

this seems like a good host.

00:25:29:27 - 00:25:31:18

This doesn't feel like fake photos.

00:25:31:18 - 00:25:32:23

I'm going to show up the listings.

00:25:32:23 - 00:25:34:24

Nothing what it looks like

00:25:34:24 - 00:25:38:19

because there is a lot of that unknown

and I think on both sides.

00:25:38:19 - 00:25:40:13

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah.

00:25:40:13 - 00:25:43:13

So I think the brand having the direct

where they feel more comfortable

00:25:43:13 - 00:25:44:04

they can reach out

00:25:45:26 - 00:25:46:27

it helpful.

00:25:46:27 - 00:25:49:17

I mean I've had many people go,

I found your website but

00:25:49:27 - 00:25:52:16

it's just easier for me to book on

Airbnb right.

00:25:53:04 - 00:25:53:28

No problem.

00:25:53:28 - 00:25:54:14

Yeah.

00:25:54:14 - 00:25:58:21

Like one feeds the other so nicely

and you know, either way, building up

00:25:58:21 - 00:26:02:11

sort of a rolodex,

I think of like reoccurring customers,

00:26:02:11 - 00:26:06:17

so to speak, and just folks

that know about you and yeah, 100%.

00:26:06:17 - 00:26:08:19

That's super cool.

00:26:08:19 - 00:26:10:01

Well, thank you for clarifying that.

00:26:10:01 - 00:26:14:05

And also helping me ask the the question,

because that was exactly the question.

00:26:14:05 - 00:26:14:14

I was like,

00:26:14:14 - 00:26:15:06

what advice

00:26:15:06 - 00:26:16:28

would you give folks about

00:26:16:28 - 00:26:19:23

where they should be listing and how

they should be thinking about that?

00:26:20:24 - 00:26:22:25

I think the answer

to that real quick, too,

00:26:22:25 - 00:26:27:23

I think the days of opening yourself up

to one platform in one system or

00:26:29:01 - 00:26:30:02

there long, long, long

00:26:30:02 - 00:26:32:12

gone,

I think there's way too much competition.

00:26:33:04 - 00:26:35:17

You have to be everywhere at this point.

00:26:35:17 - 00:26:38:18

Yeah, even if you don't book ever

on Booking.com,

00:26:39:17 - 00:26:43:12

that traffic might lead you to a direct

or whatever, right?

00:26:43:13 - 00:26:44:00

Yeah.

00:26:44:00 - 00:26:45:23

No, that is such a good point

and something

00:26:45:23 - 00:26:47:28

I haven't really thought about,

but definitely

00:26:47:28 - 00:26:50:10

like an old marketing trick to write,

which is just like

00:26:50:19 - 00:26:53:05

you got to kind of

just show up in the right places, but

00:26:53:14 - 00:26:57:02

it's very hard to know exactly

which channel is your conversion channel.

00:26:57:15 - 00:26:58:29

Yeah. Totally.

00:26:58:29 - 00:27:02:01

So you have to hedge and be like, Yeah,

they may see me on booking and then go

00:27:02:01 - 00:27:04:03

book me at Airbnb,

or they may go to my website

00:27:04:03 - 00:27:07:03

and then go to Airbnb

or vice versa, right?

00:27:07:03 - 00:27:09:23

Who knows? Yeah. Super interesting.

00:27:10:11 - 00:27:12:06

Well, I think the other thing

00:27:13:12 - 00:27:15:18

that you

and I could talk a little bit about,

00:27:15:18 - 00:27:18:21

because I know you've been pretty active

and I know you've been in some markets

00:27:18:21 - 00:27:23:01

that have seen so much change in

just like what the rules are, the rules

00:27:23:01 - 00:27:27:12

and regulations, as they say, around

operating a short term rental.

00:27:27:13 - 00:27:29:24

And again, you're an OG in this space too.

00:27:30:06 - 00:27:33:14

So similar question

because one of the things we really try

00:27:33:14 - 00:27:36:06

to emphasize for folks on

the podcast is like the importance

00:27:36:15 - 00:27:37:27

of getting involved, right?

00:27:37:27 - 00:27:40:02

And sort of like it's

the old democracy message,

00:27:40:02 - 00:27:42:23

but it's like, Hey, if you're not going to

if you're not going to at least show up

00:27:43:00 - 00:27:43:28

and be involved

00:27:43:28 - 00:27:47:00

and have your voice in the conversation,

you really can't complain.

00:27:47:27 - 00:27:48:17

About.

00:27:48:17 - 00:27:50:26

What's happening

in your neck of the woods.

00:27:51:13 - 00:27:53:29

So talk to me about what

your journey through

00:27:53:29 - 00:27:57:01

advocacy has been or to advocacy

for a short term.

00:27:57:01 - 00:27:59:20

On Journey

would definitely be the right word. Yes,

00:28:00:27 - 00:28:03:08

OG, I feel like yes, somehow,

00:28:03:17 - 00:28:06:22

never in a million years

I ever think I would say

00:28:06:22 - 00:28:09:21

I love the love

00:28:09:21 - 00:28:14:16

being a part of this voice

in a part of this conversation and group.

00:28:14:16 - 00:28:18:17

When it comes to advocacy, never did

I think that vocabulary

00:28:18:17 - 00:28:21:20

would be in my vocabulary,

00:28:22:04 - 00:28:27:07

but it's here and a huge shout out to,

I think, you know then too is is rent

00:28:27:07 - 00:28:31:01

responsibly if if it wasn't for them

taking me under their wing

00:28:31:01 - 00:28:36:04

and kind of showing me the ropes and

and understanding their point,

00:28:36:13 - 00:28:41:01

the importance of my voice

and what a group could do to make

00:28:41:07 - 00:28:43:00

positive change,

00:28:43:00 - 00:28:46:12

I don't think I would have had the courage

to ever speak up completely on my own

00:28:46:12 - 00:28:49:18

because it is intimate

and I still get so scared

00:28:49:18 - 00:28:52:08

going down to City Hall and council

and seeing these people up there like,

00:28:52:21 - 00:28:54:13

Hello sir,

what would you like to say to us?

00:28:54:13 - 00:28:56:15

You're like, I'm not sure I forgot.

00:28:57:23 - 00:28:59:24

What what do I want to say to you?

00:28:59:26 - 00:29:01:29

Yeah. Oh, that's, yeah, you're right.

00:29:01:29 - 00:29:04:06

Like,

that's a whole nother sort of public.

00:29:04:22 - 00:29:06:15

Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:06:15 - 00:29:07:28

But it's so important, right?

00:29:07:28 - 00:29:09:27

I mean, and what I understand

is that you've

00:29:09:29 - 00:29:13:17

sort of were one of the first ones

to understand the importance.

00:29:13:17 - 00:29:15:29

And I love again, another great

00:29:16:11 - 00:29:20:07

just a great little tip,

I think, from John is like, find it.

00:29:20:07 - 00:29:24:19

Find the people that are doing it and

doing it well and use them as resources.

00:29:24:19 - 00:29:25:00

Right?

00:29:25:00 - 00:29:29:16

So you're like, Guys, tell me, ladies

and gentlemen, tell me how to do this.

00:29:29:16 - 00:29:31:15

How do I be an advocate?

00:29:31:15 - 00:29:31:23

Yeah.

00:29:31:23 - 00:29:34:29

And I think like I first I

00:29:36:28 - 00:29:38:17

education on both sides.

00:29:38:17 - 00:29:40:07

Is everything right? So yeah,

00:29:40:07 - 00:29:44:16

I can't express enough how important

it really is to get involved like it.

00:29:44:16 - 00:29:49:08

So if you're in this space and you're

not involved, I'm like, Shame on you.

00:29:49:08 - 00:29:50:10

It's like,

00:29:50:10 - 00:29:54:22

you can't be a part of this business

anymore if you're not advocating some way

00:29:54:22 - 00:29:59:09

with money, donation

since your time writing letters, emails,

00:29:59:21 - 00:30:03:24

just being a better host

in general, educating like

00:30:05:17 - 00:30:08:01

I love

this subject now, I love talking about it

00:30:08:01 - 00:30:09:13

because it's so important

00:30:09:13 - 00:30:13:25

and I think we're at a very,

very critical point in our time where

00:30:14:07 - 00:30:18:00

every body we says Airbnb instead of like,

Oh, I have a vacation rental.

00:30:18:00 - 00:30:21:05

And, you know, sometimes it's

very negative in a certain town.

00:30:21:05 - 00:30:25:03

And like the way you have to talk about

it is so in Portland.

00:30:25:10 - 00:30:27:15

So it's like, may I get involved?

00:30:27:18 - 00:30:29:29

And just a quick story.

I think it's always fun.

00:30:29:29 - 00:30:31:06

Like when I first got involved,

00:30:31:06 - 00:30:34:12

I went down to City Hall

because I heard about a meeting

00:30:34:12 - 00:30:37:28

that they were possibly going to change

the short term rental laws in Arizona,

00:30:38:06 - 00:30:41:24

and I literally just invested

my entire life savings

00:30:42:05 - 00:30:46:20

on two properties in Arizona

because it was so friendly for policy

00:30:46:20 - 00:30:48:20

and it was a state

and it was a statewide bill.

00:30:48:20 - 00:30:50:22

So I'm like, Oh, this is amazing.

00:30:50:22 - 00:30:52:07

And then I heard

about this again. I was like,

00:30:53:07 - 00:30:54:06

Oh, wait a minute, wait.

00:30:54:06 - 00:30:56:11

I could actually lose my entire business.

00:30:56:11 - 00:30:58:21

Like, really? Is this even a thing?

00:30:58:21 - 00:31:02:24

So I went down there and it was me

and maybe three other hosts, maybe,

00:31:03:18 - 00:31:06:01

and there was like 200 people

00:31:06:01 - 00:31:09:00

there that were like,

Burn is at the stake.

00:31:09:06 - 00:31:10:29

No more short term rentals.

00:31:10:29 - 00:31:14:05

This is a disgrace. I was like,

00:31:14:08 - 00:31:18:06

Oh, wait, where's all the people that I've

been talking to, all these great hosts?

00:31:18:23 - 00:31:21:05

Where isn't everybody? Yeah.

00:31:21:12 - 00:31:25:21

And then that's what fueled my fire

to start finding a source.

00:31:25:21 - 00:31:28:02

And that's where right response

we came involved.

00:31:28:02 - 00:31:31:01

And then we started a board

here in Arizona where,

00:31:31:01 - 00:31:35:04

like the large largest coalition

in Arizona protecting the rights.

00:31:35:04 - 00:31:38:03

And I'm very proud of what we built.

00:31:38:10 - 00:31:39:24

We're a501c now.

00:31:39:24 - 00:31:41:07

It's just like, so exciting.

00:31:41:07 - 00:31:44:11

And we've helped so many cities either

00:31:44:11 - 00:31:47:26

adopt new laws or change them or fine

tune them a little bit.

00:31:47:26 - 00:31:51:21

So but it is not easy

work and it is a lot of work.

00:31:53:02 - 00:31:54:06

I believe you.

00:31:54:06 - 00:31:55:15

I believe you on that one.

00:31:55:15 - 00:31:57:25

But to your point, very important work.

00:31:58:10 - 00:32:02:24

And I think absolutely like the concept

of being able to sort of scale

00:32:02:24 - 00:32:06:10

the advocacy, like getting

those frameworks together and like taking

00:32:06:20 - 00:32:10:14

what you built in Arizona and being able

to transfer that other to other

00:32:10:27 - 00:32:14:00

markets is the silver lining,

I would say, right?

00:32:14:12 - 00:32:16:23

My guys learn off of John's homework.

00:32:16:23 - 00:32:18:17

John's already done the work for you.

00:32:18:17 - 00:32:21:27

All you have to do is

look at his playbook now.

00:32:21:28 - 00:32:25:24

It is really hard, but I like

what you also said is like, look at this.

00:32:25:24 - 00:32:27:26

A million different ways to be involved.

00:32:27:26 - 00:32:32:11

Yeah, you don't have to just be,

you know, writing a check, right?

00:32:32:16 - 00:32:34:13

Or if that's more convenient

for you and it's harder

00:32:34:13 - 00:32:37:15

for you to have a voice or write

a letter that might be better.

00:32:39:02 - 00:32:39:26

This is great.

00:32:39:26 - 00:32:43:03

So. So what kind of progress

have you been making in Arizona?

00:32:43:03 - 00:32:45:03

What is shaking in Arizona?

00:32:45:03 - 00:32:46:27

Oh, man. Hits.

00:32:46:27 - 00:32:49:13

We're like I said, I feel like Arizona

00:32:49:13 - 00:32:52:27

is so lucky to have a statewide bill

for many reasons.

00:32:52:27 - 00:32:55:24

Right. I think it's good for both sides.

It's good.

00:32:55:24 - 00:32:58:18

And I hate seeing sides

because it's like there's, you know,

00:32:58:25 - 00:32:59:28

the good side, the bad side.

00:32:59:28 - 00:33:01:29

But like for the neighborhoods, Right.

00:33:02:00 - 00:33:03:20

It helps protect the neighborhoods.

00:33:03:20 - 00:33:04:29

It helps protect hosts.

00:33:04:29 - 00:33:08:07

And, you know, so having a statewide,

this makes it a lot easier

00:33:08:07 - 00:33:11:24

that every single city and county is

not making up a bunch of different rules.

00:33:12:00 - 00:33:14:10

So if you have a home in one county

and then you have a home

00:33:14:10 - 00:33:16:20

in a different county,

it's completely different.

00:33:16:20 - 00:33:20:05

It'd just be impossible to keep, organize

and stay on track.

00:33:20:05 - 00:33:23:28

So, yeah, I mean, like we sit down

with the opposing side

00:33:23:28 - 00:33:26:21

all the time, say, okay, what are the

what are the things

00:33:26:21 - 00:33:30:22

that you really don't like about short

term rentals in your neighborhood?

00:33:30:22 - 00:33:32:12

How can we make this easier?

00:33:32:12 - 00:33:34:04

How can we make this better?

00:33:34:04 - 00:33:37:14

You know, sometimes

it's like, No, that's not correct.

00:33:37:14 - 00:33:39:26

Or sometimes it's

the simplest thing is trash.

00:33:40:05 - 00:33:41:16

Right? Okay, cool.

00:33:41:16 - 00:33:43:20

We're going to find a trash company

that we're going to partner with

00:33:44:00 - 00:33:46:09

that's going to take care

of all of the short term rental trash.

00:33:46:19 - 00:33:47:21

Cool problem solve.

00:33:47:21 - 00:33:49:17

Not that difficult, right?

00:33:49:17 - 00:33:51:27

So it's just like education.

00:33:52:12 - 00:33:56:01

It comes out and then,

you know, these poor like I say, poor,

00:33:56:01 - 00:33:57:16

but they signed up for the job right?

00:33:57:16 - 00:34:02:15

The mayor and the city council members

and all everybody involved in politics,

00:34:03:00 - 00:34:05:09

they just have way

too many bills on their plate

00:34:05:16 - 00:34:09:14

and there's no way they can read through

all of these and understand everything.

00:34:09:14 - 00:34:11:14

So, Oh, my gosh, yeah, that's impossible.

00:34:11:14 - 00:34:15:12

So it's our job to get in front of them

and say, Hey, look, we're humans.

00:34:15:12 - 00:34:16:19

We're mom and pops.

00:34:16:19 - 00:34:21:28

Yeah massive corporations buying

the entire city blocks and and not caring.

00:34:21:28 - 00:34:22:19

We live here.

00:34:22:19 - 00:34:25:07

I was born here

like my grandfather was a mayor.

00:34:25:21 - 00:34:28:23

Arizona, our mesa for a while, like,

Oh, wow, I get it.

00:34:28:23 - 00:34:33:16

And then they're like, Oh,

okay, let's talk and then we'll show them.

00:34:33:16 - 00:34:35:12

This is what the opposing side

is talking about.

00:34:35:12 - 00:34:36:29

This is what we're talking about.

00:34:36:29 - 00:34:39:00

This is what's on the state bill.

00:34:39:00 - 00:34:41:09

Let's come, let's clean it up.

00:34:41:09 - 00:34:44:11

So yeah, I kind of rambled there

a little bit. No.

00:34:44:20 - 00:34:47:17

It was a great

it was I mean, so, so important.

00:34:47:24 - 00:34:49:28

And to your point,

a little nuanced. Right.

00:34:49:28 - 00:34:52:17

And again,

I think like the takeaways for me

00:34:52:17 - 00:34:55:12

there are like open the dialog, right?

00:34:55:12 - 00:34:57:08

Like it doesn't have to be us versus them.

00:34:57:08 - 00:35:02:08

It's like, figure out what's really

bothering people about Airbnbs, right?

00:35:02:08 - 00:35:04:27

And also there's sort of like fact

and fiction there, right?

00:35:04:27 - 00:35:07:00

Like there's

there's things that are real problems

00:35:07:08 - 00:35:09:29

and then there's things

that might feel like problems are things

00:35:09:29 - 00:35:12:19

that people are just like,

generally worried about, right?

00:35:12:19 - 00:35:13:13

Like, oh,

00:35:13:13 - 00:35:16:25

if I let all these Airbnbs into my area

or all the short term rentals in my area,

00:35:17:09 - 00:35:20:29

affordable housing affordability

is going to be all out of whack

00:35:20:29 - 00:35:23:02

and there's not going

be any housing for the service people.

00:35:23:03 - 00:35:26:08

Then you're like, Well, okay, let's talk

about what that really looks like

00:35:26:08 - 00:35:29:15

and what kind of housing, how

that's two very different types of houses.

00:35:30:15 - 00:35:31:25

You have to.

00:35:31:25 - 00:35:32:17

Yeah.

00:35:32:19 - 00:35:35:20

So opening that dialog

and really unpacking.

00:35:35:20 - 00:35:37:29

Why why are you feeling

anxious about this?

00:35:38:05 - 00:35:40:08

Why are you against short term rentals

00:35:40:17 - 00:35:44:01

and then I love this idea

of like humanizing yourself, right?

00:35:44:02 - 00:35:46:16

Like, look, like I'm going to show up.

I'm invested.

00:35:46:24 - 00:35:48:23

I'm invested in this community, right?

00:35:48:23 - 00:35:52:26

This is not just about me going

and just grabbing everything everywhere.

00:35:53:25 - 00:35:54:02

Yeah.

00:35:54:02 - 00:35:57:26

And I think like like I was saying

earlier, I was like, just get involved.

00:35:57:27 - 00:35:59:29

Like, yeah, we started from nothing.

00:36:00:04 - 00:36:02:18

We didn't know what we were doing.

We slowly kept building.

00:36:02:18 - 00:36:03:25

We got more organized.

00:36:03:25 - 00:36:05:22

We became an official board,

00:36:05:22 - 00:36:08:15

but now we're getting volunteers

because we're organized enough.

00:36:08:15 - 00:36:09:13

We get volunteers.

00:36:09:13 - 00:36:13:21

We got amazing volunteers coming forward

like, Hey, we want to help write letters

00:36:13:29 - 00:36:17:29

that everybody can use, that they can just

copy and paste and change a few things

00:36:18:08 - 00:36:19:06

quick and easy.

00:36:19:06 - 00:36:20:26

It's like, Wow, okay, that's amazing.

00:36:20:26 - 00:36:22:13

That's and then, you know,

00:36:22:13 - 00:36:24:29

somebody from Lake Havasu

just reached out to us and is like,

00:36:25:11 - 00:36:26:18

Hey, I don't see on your website

00:36:26:18 - 00:36:29:15

that you have all this stuff

about policy in Lake Havasu and like,

00:36:29:25 - 00:36:32:09

what do you want to help us

because we just haven't got there.

00:36:32:09 - 00:36:34:00

We don't have enough manpower yet.

00:36:34:00 - 00:36:35:18

We're all drafted up.

00:36:35:18 - 00:36:37:19

And then they drafted up

and we put it on the site.

00:36:37:19 - 00:36:39:21

So it's like it's always evolving,

00:36:40:15 - 00:36:42:04

which is really cool

because that's what it should be.

00:36:42:04 - 00:36:45:26

Hosts are always coming together,

so it should be a group effort.

00:36:46:23 - 00:36:47:28

All right. Yes, it's very cool.

00:36:47:28 - 00:36:51:13

Well, I also like that you like because

because the inkling could be to be like,

00:36:51:21 - 00:36:53:22

oh, man, why are you bugging me?

00:36:53:22 - 00:36:56:27

Why are you writing my ass

about not having Lake Havasu data?

00:36:56:27 - 00:37:00:02

But instead you turned it into like,

Hey, man, come help me out.

00:37:00:06 - 00:37:02:09

Like, Yeah, yeah, you're right.

I don't have that data.

00:37:02:09 - 00:37:03:02

Do you have the data?

00:37:03:02 - 00:37:04:15

Let's get some data together.

00:37:04:15 - 00:37:06:06

Like, I like that.

00:37:06:06 - 00:37:08:08

It's true because sometimes you do.

00:37:08:08 - 00:37:10:16

Sometimes you will take it personally,

right? You're right.

00:37:10:17 - 00:37:11:22

Yeah, I'm trying.

00:37:11:22 - 00:37:12:27

I'm trying where?

00:37:12:27 - 00:37:15:16

There's only so many cities

we can't even keep up right now.

00:37:15:16 - 00:37:17:16

It's so every city is changing.

00:37:17:19 - 00:37:20:17

Like, please,

we're trying to be nice to me.

00:37:22:00 - 00:37:22:10

Right?

00:37:22:10 - 00:37:23:18

Yeah. Don't take it personally.

00:37:23:18 - 00:37:25:12

Just turn it into an opportunity.

00:37:25:12 - 00:37:27:15

Turn a challenge into an opportunity.

00:37:27:24 - 00:37:28:12

Totally.

00:37:28:12 - 00:37:29:14

And we've been doing these fun

00:37:29:14 - 00:37:32:13

little meetups lately,

like at local coffee shops.

00:37:32:13 - 00:37:33:17

We, we just did one.

00:37:33:17 - 00:37:37:15

And that, surprisingly enough,

too many people showed up,

00:37:37:24 - 00:37:40:10

But nobody shows up for advocacy stuff.

00:37:40:19 - 00:37:42:23

Right? Right. People are like,

Wait a minute.

00:37:43:06 - 00:37:44:06

And it was so cool.

00:37:44:06 - 00:37:48:00

We ended up having to go to a house

because we had to meet Google and then we,

00:37:48:04 - 00:37:51:28

you know, so we're doing these little

meetups and people are really interested

00:37:52:06 - 00:37:56:01

in the topic now and how to get involved

and how to be a voice in this,

00:37:56:01 - 00:37:59:12

how to be a better host,

which in general is what we need.

00:37:59:12 - 00:38:03:10

We just need hosts that treat it

like a business at the end of the day.

00:38:03:26 - 00:38:06:10

Yeah, yeah, that is so funny.

00:38:06:10 - 00:38:10:00

Like I find sometimes that

not to get cheesy, but I'm going to like

00:38:10:11 - 00:38:13:21

the universe just keeps

sending out the same signals to you.

00:38:13:21 - 00:38:16:14

And so over the course

of the last two weeks,

00:38:16:14 - 00:38:20:21

I think that has been one of the

like sort of resounding drumbeats

00:38:20:21 - 00:38:23:11

that I've been hearing from folks

like you, which is just like,

00:38:23:24 - 00:38:25:11

this is a business like it is.

00:38:25:11 - 00:38:27:23

It's time to get serious,

to take yourself seriously,

00:38:28:14 - 00:38:32:13

you know, take your business

seriously, run it like a business.

00:38:33:00 - 00:38:35:18

And and you know what we've been

sort of saying over here is like,

00:38:35:28 - 00:38:38:29

yes, this is this is this

this industry is maturing.

00:38:39:16 - 00:38:41:27

Yeah, it's it's entering a new phase.

00:38:41:27 - 00:38:44:19

And so you do have to evolve, right?

00:38:44:19 - 00:38:48:03

Which hopefully is exciting

for most people to evolve.

00:38:48:03 - 00:38:50:11

But you do have to evolve with the times.

00:38:50:25 - 00:38:53:27

Well, I promise you guys adding

00:38:55:06 - 00:38:56:10

or added

00:38:56:10 - 00:39:01:16

more information on how to search for,

you know, what the temperature is in

00:39:01:16 - 00:39:05:04

advocacy

in that area or the policies or I forgot,

00:39:05:16 - 00:39:08:01

I think I remember seeing that

00:39:08:05 - 00:39:10:08

which it comes back to the data.

00:39:10:08 - 00:39:11:06

It's so important.

00:39:11:06 - 00:39:12:26

I think that's probably

the first thing I look at now,

00:39:12:26 - 00:39:15:18

if I'm going to buy is like, okay,

what's the temperature over there?

00:39:15:29 - 00:39:16:29

What's the laws?

00:39:16:29 - 00:39:20:02

Is there any you guys are adding that

in your stuff now, right?

00:39:20:11 - 00:39:25:29

Yeah, we do have so we have a regulation

score in our tool and then we just issued

00:39:25:29 - 00:39:30:25

our 2023 Best Places to Invest report

and for a shameless plug.

00:39:30:25 - 00:39:31:10

Sorry guys.

00:39:31:10 - 00:39:31:18

You know,

00:39:31:18 - 00:39:34:05

I knew I was going to do it, but,

you know,

00:39:34:07 - 00:39:37:00

there were a lot of like sort of zingers

in there, right?

00:39:37:00 - 00:39:37:20

Because folks were like,

00:39:37:20 - 00:39:40:22

wait a minute, you put Fairbanks,

Alaska on there, You put Sheboygan.

00:39:40:22 - 00:39:42:20

I think it's in Michigan or Wisconsin.

00:39:42:20 - 00:39:45:06

Sorry. Sorry, folks in Sheboygan,

I apologize.

00:39:45:06 - 00:39:46:16

I'll figure out what state you're in.

00:39:47:27 - 00:39:50:28

But but people were like, whoa,

whoa, whoa, what is this about?

00:39:50:28 - 00:39:53:02

And we were like, well,

it's about a couple of different things.

00:39:53:02 - 00:39:55:05

One of them being regulation, right?

00:39:55:05 - 00:39:57:12

And so we actually partnered

with our friends at Remedy

00:39:58:05 - 00:40:01:03

and leverage their database

after we sort of narrowed down

00:40:01:03 - 00:40:02:29

our list of best places to invest.

00:40:02:29 - 00:40:06:27

And a lot of that was also based

on what we call invest ability,

00:40:06:27 - 00:40:10:25

which is like how much is a house cost

you and does a house cost

00:40:11:00 - 00:40:13:27

expenses is like, you know, like

what is your mortgage going to look like?

00:40:13:27 - 00:40:15:27

Like all the practical stuff

that goes into

00:40:15:27 - 00:40:19:03

actually the investment component versus

just thinking about like, well, sure,

00:40:19:03 - 00:40:22:03

you probably could make $1,000

a night, right?

00:40:22:26 - 00:40:25:10

But how much it costs

you to make $1,000 a night.

00:40:26:12 - 00:40:28:12

So, yeah, we definitely we're doing

just that.

00:40:28:12 - 00:40:32:13

And and again, we are super happy to

I know Jamie,

00:40:32:19 - 00:40:36:16

my co-host, has provided like Atlanta,

for instance, the city of Atlanta,

00:40:36:16 - 00:40:38:26

with a lot of data to help. Right.

00:40:38:26 - 00:40:41:18

Because to your point, like,

if you can prove empirically

00:40:42:12 - 00:40:45:21

that this is the true situation

and this is the true impact of short

00:40:45:21 - 00:40:48:27

term rentals on a community

certainly helps.

00:40:48:27 - 00:40:51:12

So we're always,

always happy to help folks.

00:40:51:12 - 00:40:53:27

It's like yourself, John.

00:40:53:27 - 00:40:56:01

And are you with data

when we can, for sure.

00:40:56:13 - 00:40:57:08

Oh, that's exciting.

00:40:57:08 - 00:41:00:15

I'm going to hit you guys up

for about that because you know, do it

00:41:00:15 - 00:41:04:17

like showing

real data to the city councils,

00:41:04:22 - 00:41:07:28

not the newspaper data.

00:41:08:20 - 00:41:11:02

Yes, the newspapers

reach out to us often to they're like,

00:41:12:01 - 00:41:13:16

okay, we're not going to help.

00:41:13:16 - 00:41:15:00

We're not like

00:41:15:00 - 00:41:16:06

we're not going to help you tell the story

00:41:16:06 - 00:41:17:22

because the data is telling us

something different.

00:41:17:22 - 00:41:19:04

Yeah, Yeah.

00:41:19:21 - 00:41:21:13

Good point. Good point.

00:41:21:21 - 00:41:22:14

Oh, my gosh.

00:41:22:14 - 00:41:25:09

Well, I promise

not to talk to you for too much longer.

00:41:25:09 - 00:41:27:07

It's my. It's my new thing.

00:41:27:07 - 00:41:28:23

Natalie Palmer and I came up with it.

00:41:28:23 - 00:41:30:29

This podcast is not torture.

00:41:30:29 - 00:41:33:24

No, we're not torturing listeners

or guests,

00:41:35:05 - 00:41:37:07

but I would love to know with all of this

00:41:37:16 - 00:41:40:25

maturation of the

I don't know if I said the right

00:41:42:10 - 00:41:46:01

of the industry,

what are you thinking about for 2023?

00:41:46:01 - 00:41:49:10

What's sort of your strategy

going into a year that, yes, you've got

00:41:49:16 - 00:41:53:00

regulation, headwinds,

you've got invest, ability, headwinds,

00:41:53:28 - 00:41:56:09

you're operating

in all these very interesting markets.

00:41:56:16 - 00:42:00:00

So lots of demand,

but supply might be coming after you?

00:42:00:22 - 00:42:02:10

Not now that I'm depressed.

00:42:02:10 - 00:42:03:26

You carry on.

00:42:03:26 - 00:42:07:01

What what do you think and

how are you mitigating the risks of 2023?

00:42:07:01 - 00:42:09:20

I literally almost started crying. Yeah.

00:42:10:17 - 00:42:12:19

I did. Maybe this podcast is.

00:42:12:19 - 00:42:16:28

Pretty well

to to dissect out a little bit, right.

00:42:16:28 - 00:42:22:26

I think it does brings new challenges

that some of it is exciting.

00:42:22:26 - 00:42:28:04

I think sadly enough, it's going to it's

going to weed out the weak, right?

00:42:28:04 - 00:42:33:02

So the properties that are just average

are going to be hit really hard.

00:42:33:06 - 00:42:34:22

Like really hard.

00:42:34:22 - 00:42:38:29

I think the property management companies

that are doing a job,

00:42:38:29 - 00:42:43:03

you know, with the 4.6 reviews and stuff,

are going to get hit really hard

00:42:43:03 - 00:42:45:10

because people's hard earned money,

they don't want to risk

00:42:46:02 - 00:42:47:27

a property that they're not sure about.

00:42:47:27 - 00:42:49:07

So if the right branded,

00:42:49:07 - 00:42:52:22

if it's not good reviews,

people just aren't going to book it right.

00:42:52:22 - 00:42:55:24

So I think a lot of those people going

to have to really like take a deep dive

00:42:55:24 - 00:42:58:28

and be like,

okay, is it time to update some furniture?

00:42:59:00 - 00:43:01:00

Do we need to add some amenities?

00:43:01:00 - 00:43:03:27

Yes, all white walls are kind of boring

sometimes.

00:43:03:27 - 00:43:05:05

Do we need to paint some white walls?

00:43:05:05 - 00:43:06:19

Do we need to add some wallpaper?

00:43:06:19 - 00:43:08:16

Like do we need to, you know,

00:43:09:22 - 00:43:10:13

ask ourselves

00:43:10:13 - 00:43:13:05

internally, like, what's holding back?

00:43:13:12 - 00:43:16:25

You know,

can we afford 5% dip in the next year?

00:43:17:11 - 00:43:18:12

Yeah.

00:43:18:12 - 00:43:21:18

So I think it's going to be

a big reality check.

00:43:22:12 - 00:43:26:20

And then sadly, like a part of

the industry needs that a little bit.

00:43:26:20 - 00:43:29:02

Right.

And it does need a little correction.

00:43:29:13 - 00:43:33:14

Yeah, I think more hosts

do need to step up a little bit.

00:43:33:14 - 00:43:36:29

And so I don't know,

I think there's parts of me

00:43:36:29 - 00:43:41:03

that is excited for 2023,

even though it's insanely scary.

00:43:41:09 - 00:43:45:21

I got to admit, you know, revenue is down,

occupancy is down.

00:43:46:20 - 00:43:50:19

The properties that that I have

that that were really like

00:43:50:28 - 00:43:55:12

focusing on design and customer service

and all that stuff are doing well there.

00:43:55:13 - 00:43:58:02

They're not the same numbers

but we're booked

00:43:58:24 - 00:44:01:03

and we got, you know, great feedback and

00:44:01:21 - 00:44:04:19

yeah, so it's it's just more work maybe,

00:44:04:20 - 00:44:07:02

you know, there's a lot more

that's got to go into it now.

00:44:07:23 - 00:44:08:08

Yeah.

00:44:08:08 - 00:44:10:28

Yeah that's, I

well that was very well said.

00:44:11:02 - 00:44:13:02

Also very realistic which I like. Right.

00:44:14:21 - 00:44:17:08

We were both very real with each other.

00:44:17:08 - 00:44:18:19

We're going to have a good cry

00:44:18:19 - 00:44:21:06

that we're going to just ourselves off

and get back to here.

00:44:21:06 - 00:44:22:16

Exactly.

00:44:23:02 - 00:44:27:04

I mean, look, at the end of the day,

every business is going through something,

00:44:27:04 - 00:44:31:23

no matter what business it, you know,

it's like it if you're in control

00:44:31:23 - 00:44:34:26

of your own destiny, which I like to be,

I like to be in control of my own.

00:44:35:07 - 00:44:37:09

So I'm just going to figure it out.

00:44:37:20 - 00:44:39:13

What is it that we need to do?

00:44:39:13 - 00:44:44:05

Like, Yeah, let's go to the data is

do I need a hot tub that's heated?

00:44:44:05 - 00:44:45:04

Do I need this?

00:44:45:04 - 00:44:49:16

Do I need to add what do we need

to do to make some adjustments?

00:44:49:16 - 00:44:49:26

Right.

00:44:49:26 - 00:44:54:15

And that part's kind of exciting,

but it's been it's scary as heck for sure.

00:44:55:05 - 00:44:56:26

But I'm still trying to buy

00:44:57:25 - 00:45:00:06

and not like crazy.

00:45:00:06 - 00:45:01:22

I'm dying to get another property.

00:45:01:22 - 00:45:02:11

I just

00:45:03:12 - 00:45:07:25

confused on where right with It's all

everything going on, right?

00:45:07:25 - 00:45:11:27

It's a I have so much policy in my head

and that I'm always like,

00:45:12:13 - 00:45:15:20

okay, let me dive into that first

and really see. So.

00:45:16:01 - 00:45:16:24

Right.

00:45:16:24 - 00:45:19:25

And the uncertainty

of where the market is going.

00:45:20:25 - 00:45:21:28

Yeah, yeah.

00:45:21:28 - 00:45:22:22

No, it's true.

00:45:22:22 - 00:45:26:26

But you know, I do think fortune favors

the bold as they say.

00:45:26:26 - 00:45:27:07

Right.

00:45:27:07 - 00:45:30:10

So and you know we've talked about a lot

it's like just you know,

00:45:30:23 - 00:45:35:07

a lot of people looked at people

who are buying in 28 and back.

00:45:35:16 - 00:45:38:20

Like. Oh three what are you crazy?

00:45:38:20 - 00:45:41:06

And I was like, well,

you know, usually pays off.

00:45:41:06 - 00:45:43:22

So but you got to be in it

for the long game.

00:45:43:22 - 00:45:45:13

You got to treat it like a business,

00:45:46:28 - 00:45:49:01

you know, still lots of opportunity.

00:45:49:01 - 00:45:51:24

But, you know, again, it's not,

you know, it was never passive income.

00:45:51:24 - 00:45:55:26

That was a complete miss mythology

that maybe got spread a.

00:45:55:26 - 00:45:57:12

Little over there.

00:45:57:12 - 00:45:58:13

It needs a

00:45:59:29 - 00:46:02:06

everybody on Tok

saying how passive it is AM

00:46:02:06 - 00:46:06:02

like really

I was weed back in the other day for hours

00:46:07:04 - 00:46:10:13

never did I think I would be weed

whacking for passive income Like.

00:46:11:22 - 00:46:14:28

You're like,

wait a minute, am I doing this right?

00:46:15:03 - 00:46:15:23

Right.

00:46:15:23 - 00:46:16:27

Okay.

00:46:18:05 - 00:46:19:07

Oh, my God.

00:46:19:07 - 00:46:21:21

It's scary. It's it's scary, but yeah.

00:46:22:12 - 00:46:23:01

Scary fun.

00:46:23:01 - 00:46:23:29

Scary good.

00:46:23:29 - 00:46:27:05

Very fun. Very scary. Good.

00:46:27:05 - 00:46:30:01

Well, again, you know, it's the lots.

00:46:30:03 - 00:46:31:21

Fortune, favors, the bold and those

00:46:31:21 - 00:46:35:28

who are willing to be brave

and in the face of scary scariness.

00:46:35:28 - 00:46:37:09

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say.

00:46:39:01 - 00:46:40:06

John, I would

00:46:40:06 - 00:46:44:01

love to wrap this podcast with you

by playing a fun little game.

00:46:44:01 - 00:46:45:26

Are you up for it?

00:46:46:13 - 00:46:48:22

Okay Look,

I don't have a choice, so let's go.

00:46:48:23 - 00:46:50:17

Yeah, I mean, you're stuck with me.

00:46:50:17 - 00:46:51:12

We we haven't.

00:46:51:12 - 00:46:54:12

We haven't come up with a conclusion yet.

00:46:54:12 - 00:46:56:20

So the game we make everyone play it.

00:46:56:20 - 00:46:57:06

Okay.

00:46:57:06 - 00:46:59:05

And again, this podcast is not torture.

00:47:00:21 - 00:47:04:02

So it's who, what, where.

00:47:04:14 - 00:47:08:16

The first question is apart from yourself,

because I've learned a lot from you

00:47:08:16 - 00:47:11:05

and I really just like your outlook

and your mindset

00:47:11:07 - 00:47:14:18

I think it's so important to have

the right mindset of this business.

00:47:15:02 - 00:47:19:25

But apart from yourself, who would you

recommend folks go to for inspiration?

00:47:20:28 - 00:47:22:27

Wow. Okay.

00:47:22:27 - 00:47:25:12

I mean, your podcast.

00:47:25:12 - 00:47:27:00

Is for. All of us.

00:47:27:00 - 00:47:30:13

No, I just think there's insane

amounts of resource right?

00:47:30:13 - 00:47:34:19

So like one resource

you should always look is, yes,

00:47:34:19 - 00:47:39:15

you should educate yourself

on advocacy policy regulations.

00:47:39:25 - 00:47:40:10

That's like

00:47:40:10 - 00:47:43:11

literally at my top of the list

before I buy anything, I might dive it in.

00:47:43:11 - 00:47:46:13

So go to read responsibly,

find out if they

00:47:46:13 - 00:47:49:27

if they have a group anywhere in your city

that would be like one.

00:47:49:28 - 00:47:52:25

The top things you should do

if you're getting into this business

00:47:53:12 - 00:47:55:22

or if you're in this business, right?

00:47:55:22 - 00:47:58:18

And then there's so many amazing

resources.

00:47:59:09 - 00:48:01:18

My friend Rob Bill has an awesome YouTube

00:48:01:18 - 00:48:05:20

channel and a great hosting community,

which I teach on once a month to

00:48:06:21 - 00:48:07:09

blog.

00:48:08:16 - 00:48:11:08

He does a great job in on how to invest

and whatnot.

00:48:11:08 - 00:48:15:14

I listen to my good friend

Michael Valiente, amazing

00:48:15:14 - 00:48:19:27

guy on numbers

and content, gets you very inspired

00:48:19:28 - 00:48:23:06

and just I don't know, there's so many

I can think of.

00:48:24:10 - 00:48:27:00

My my good friend Will has a podcast

00:48:27:00 - 00:48:31:00

where he has a million other podcast

all about the short term rental business.

00:48:31:12 - 00:48:33:24

I mean, you can go down a rabbit hole

on that thing.

00:48:34:15 - 00:48:36:01

Yeah. So and.

00:48:36:01 - 00:48:36:20

Shout out to.

00:48:36:20 - 00:48:39:00

Shout out to Mr. Bruce Lee because he.

00:48:39:15 - 00:48:42:01

Gets. In so much content.

00:48:42:12 - 00:48:43:00

So forget me.

00:48:43:00 - 00:48:47:09

If you need to learn about direct booking,

definitely go down that route for sure.

00:48:47:09 - 00:48:50:13

Man. Yeah, yeah, we got enough.

00:48:50:13 - 00:48:51:13

I mean, yeah.

00:48:51:13 - 00:48:53:15

No, there's families out there.

00:48:53:15 - 00:48:54:03

Yeah, that's.

00:48:54:03 - 00:48:54:15

You're right.

00:48:54:15 - 00:48:57:14

Like I did it clarify, but you can go

00:48:57:19 - 00:49:00:24

with more than one person or resource.

00:49:00:24 - 00:49:02:12

It was too hard for me to say one.

00:49:02:12 - 00:49:03:08

No, I think.

00:49:03:08 - 00:49:05:15

Well you named a few of our favorites

as well.

00:49:05:15 - 00:49:08:04

We love working with Rob

and with Michael Phonte.

00:49:08:23 - 00:49:09:03

All right.

00:49:09:03 - 00:49:11:05

Well,

you ready for the next one and stuff?

00:49:11:16 - 00:49:12:22

Okay. Okay.

00:49:12:22 - 00:49:14:27

It is. What?

00:49:14:27 - 00:49:19:15

What do you wish you knew that

you now know when you started?

00:49:21:06 - 00:49:26:27

Hmm. But it's this is it.

00:49:27:17 - 00:49:30:29

This is a funny one because I feel like

00:49:31:10 - 00:49:35:10

what you don't know

gives you the confidence to just do it.

00:49:35:16 - 00:49:39:02

Oh, such a good zinger on this one.

00:49:39:02 - 00:49:40:02

I like that.

00:49:40:02 - 00:49:42:10

You're like, Listen,

if I knew, I wouldn't have done it.

00:49:42:14 - 00:49:46:08

There is no 100% like there are some times

00:49:46:08 - 00:49:48:23

where you can get stuck in numbers

paralysis, right?

00:49:48:23 - 00:49:53:21

And you just don't do it because, yeah,

you run the numbers death, right?

00:49:53:21 - 00:49:56:24

And they're out. So yeah.

00:49:56:25 - 00:50:01:24

Sometimes not knowing is more helpful

because you just do it right.

00:50:02:02 - 00:50:03:07

But yeah.

00:50:03:07 - 00:50:06:27

I wish I would have known more

about the data

00:50:07:02 - 00:50:08:22

to be totally honest, because it's

00:50:08:22 - 00:50:13:13

so I didn't realize how important it is

and how amazing data is and then

00:50:14:21 - 00:50:15:04

able to

00:50:15:04 - 00:50:18:28

dissect it and understand

it just gives you just enough confidence.

00:50:18:28 - 00:50:21:21

We're like, okay, this is the data.

00:50:22:08 - 00:50:23:09

How can I improve?

00:50:23:09 - 00:50:25:29

Can I work harder than that

to get to the next level?

00:50:26:09 - 00:50:27:06

Okay, Right, right.

00:50:27:06 - 00:50:30:03

So I would think data would be definitely

at the top of the list.

00:50:30:17 - 00:50:31:16

I wish I would.

00:50:32:06 - 00:50:33:17

I love I love that answer.

00:50:33:17 - 00:50:36:14

Obviously, this is this is the S.T.A.R.

00:50:36:14 - 00:50:37:06

Data Lab.

00:50:37:06 - 00:50:39:22

We love that. To the table

to say that either.

00:50:40:00 - 00:50:40:14

Yeah.

00:50:40:14 - 00:50:40:22

Yeah.

00:50:40:22 - 00:50:44:05

No, I yeah, I bribed him. Don't worry.

00:50:44:10 - 00:50:45:08

All right, All right.

00:50:45:08 - 00:50:47:15

The last question is

00:50:48:12 - 00:50:52:06

where if you were to hop into your hot

tub time machine,

00:50:52:06 - 00:50:55:23

where would you have invested

when you first started?

00:50:56:25 - 00:50:58:10

What's the one that got away? John?

00:50:59:16 - 00:51:00:27

I still it's still kind.

00:51:00:27 - 00:51:02:20

It haunts me ish.

00:51:02:20 - 00:51:07:03

So we've had a family house in Park City

for like 25 years.

00:51:07:16 - 00:51:09:20

Now where I love that place.

00:51:09:20 - 00:51:13:00

It's literally

used to be one of my favorite places ever.

00:51:13:11 - 00:51:17:25

And years ago

when I was just starting vacation

00:51:17:25 - 00:51:21:27

rentals, I was

I almost bought a condo and a cabin there.

00:51:21:27 - 00:51:23:17

Like I almost bought this condo one time.

00:51:23:17 - 00:51:27:05

That was one,

and it was still priced a tad too high.

00:51:27:05 - 00:51:28:03

I got scared.

00:51:28:03 - 00:51:31:06

I was like, I don't know if enough people

are going to come here, right?

00:51:31:06 - 00:51:33:12

Well, that one definitely got away. It.

00:51:34:04 - 00:51:37:09

We ended up selling our family home

two years ago

00:51:37:19 - 00:51:41:01

and now I don't have any

place to go in Park City, but

00:51:42:09 - 00:51:45:03

that's probably one

that I wish I was like, Man, I shouldn't

00:51:45:03 - 00:51:45:21

try to figure it out.

00:51:45:21 - 00:51:48:07

Then that way

I always have a ski place to go to.

00:51:48:17 - 00:51:49:27

Yes, Yes.

00:51:49:27 - 00:51:52:11

Yeah. Double the double purposed.

00:51:52:11 - 00:51:52:28

Yeah.

00:51:52:28 - 00:51:57:18

Utah got onto our radar too late to

you like to your point around the data,

00:51:57:18 - 00:52:00:24

I think that's one of the things

that the data can help you understand.

00:52:00:24 - 00:52:02:21

Like as you're

searching for a new markets,

00:52:02:21 - 00:52:06:04

because by the time it occurs to me,

for instance, that a place is poppin,

00:52:06:11 - 00:52:09:01

it's already jumped

the shark, it's already past.

00:52:09:15 - 00:52:11:23

And I'm like, Oh,

this place is popular and cool.

00:52:11:23 - 00:52:13:22

Oh, so does

everyone else thinks the same thing.

00:52:13:22 - 00:52:16:15

We're so weird.

00:52:16:15 - 00:52:17:29

So it's like, yeah, finding those little,

00:52:17:29 - 00:52:22:01

like diamonds in the rough,

those like emerging markets, so to speak.

00:52:22:09 - 00:52:23:07

Oh, my gosh.

00:52:23:07 - 00:52:26:12

Well,

I could again, like, talk to you all day.

00:52:26:28 - 00:52:29:14

I'm not going to make you do that

because this podcast not torture.

00:52:30:09 - 00:52:33:10

However,

I do want you to tell people you mentioned

00:52:34:00 - 00:52:37:19

that you're working with Rob Belt

in his master class or his coach.

00:52:37:19 - 00:52:39:14

I think he's calling you coach class.

00:52:39:14 - 00:52:40:21

Host Camp Yeah.

00:52:40:21 - 00:52:41:06

Thank you.

00:52:41:06 - 00:52:43:25

Host Camp I should know that. Rob,

if you're listening. I'm sorry.

00:52:45:02 - 00:52:45:12

So you're

00:52:45:12 - 00:52:48:18

working with Rob on at host camp,

but where else can folks find you?

00:52:48:18 - 00:52:49:02

Where else?

00:52:49:02 - 00:52:50:13

If people want more of your life

00:52:50:13 - 00:52:54:11

philosophy, your wisdom,

how to get an advocacy group started?

00:52:54:28 - 00:52:58:03

Well, I have a soft launch

on my personal website, so

00:52:58:03 - 00:53:03:05

My personal website is John Hildebrand dot

com because someone took dot com.

00:53:03:06 - 00:53:03:25

How rude.

00:53:03:25 - 00:53:05:28

I mean that's not relatable to us

over here at there.

00:53:05:28 - 00:53:08:07

Daneyko. Yeah exactly. Exactly.

00:53:08:16 - 00:53:10:22

So you can go to John Hildebrand Eco

00:53:11:20 - 00:53:15:27

I'm always really active on my Instagram,

which is John Hildebrand, Sigi

00:53:16:05 - 00:53:19:07

and then YouTube has been a new fun

journey for me.

00:53:19:21 - 00:53:20:28

He'll be awesome.

00:53:20:28 - 00:53:23:00

My direct

booking site is Healthy Homes as well.

00:53:23:00 - 00:53:25:15

So yeah, reach out because

00:53:25:15 - 00:53:28:06

I love connecting with people

and that's super fun.

00:53:28:06 - 00:53:28:24

Yeah.

00:53:28:24 - 00:53:31:00

So this was not torture.

00:53:31:00 - 00:53:32:24

This was fun content.

00:53:32:24 - 00:53:35:00

Shameless plug, not torture.

00:53:35:00 - 00:53:36:02

Well, I have enjoyed.

00:53:36:02 - 00:53:39:00

Being in one of those sweatshirts

soon also.

00:53:39:06 - 00:53:41:17

Yes. Yes. We'll get to

we got to get you some swag.

00:53:41:17 - 00:53:42:18

I agree.

00:53:42:18 - 00:53:44:27

Swag is all.

It's all about this flag. Yeah. Yeah,

00:53:46:25 - 00:53:47:02

yeah.

00:53:47:02 - 00:53:49:03

Thank you again. That was super,

super fun.

00:53:49:15 - 00:53:50:15

Yeah, it really was.

00:53:50:15 - 00:53:52:20

Well, John,

thank you so much for joining us today.

Follow Us: